Re: [tied] Enclosed Places (was: The unexplained link between Greek

12-07-03 23:30, Abdullah Konushevci wrote:

> About place name Zgërdhesh (for the same toponymic paradigm see:
> Arbnesh, Kurvelesh, Martanesh, Padesh, Makresh, Vaganesh, Golesh,
> Bitesh, etc.) it's worth mentioned that it is Albanian name for the
> Albanopolis (first was mentioned by Ptolemy in the mid-2d century
> AD. There is a church dedicated to Saint Martin and there are no
> data that was ever under any Slavic impact.

I'm not saying that the name was given to the place by the Slavs. I only
claim that it contains a element borrowed (possibly) from Slavic. Once
borrowed, it would have become Albanian.

> For me, the name has just Albanian form Zgërdhesh of Greek
> <polis> 'city' < Albanopolis.
> I support and, furthermore, I believe that in IE studies we must
> keep as axiom Delamarre's claim that every day's word couldn't be
> loans from other languages, otherwise we couldn't pretend in Proto-
> Indo-European language as a mother language.

Why accept as an axiom anything so patently false, and why put such
nonsense into Xavier Delamarre's mouth? _Lots_ of everyday words are
loans in _any_ language. English <city> is a loan from French, for that
matter. Slavic *xle^bU 'bread' (a daily thing par excellence) is a loan
from Gothic. Your conclusion concerning PIE (as far as I'm able to
understand it) is a "non sequitur". The existence of loans doesn't make
it impossible to identify the inherited material.

> And, at last, Proto-Albanians tribes was much early, speaking
> historically, in contact with Germanic tribes, especially with
> Goths, then Slavic tribes in the Ballkans.

That's fine, as far as I'm concerned. I don't exclude the possibility
that <gardh> is a loan fron East Germanic. I said Germanic _or_ Slavic;
it's hard to rule out either possibility.

Piotr