[tied] Re: Creole Romance? [was: Thracian , summing up]

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "ehlsmith" <ehlsmith@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>

wrote:

> ...[cut]...
> > Creole grammars don't start from scratch (unless you are a

follower

> > of Chomsky or Psammetik). They start from the grammar of the

native

> > language of the new speaker.
>
> Aren't many, if not most, creoles [using the classic definition]

the

> result of a multiplicity of languages being thrown together, not

just

> two? In those cases where does the grammar come from? There is no

one

> "native language".

The classical "situation" you are thinking of here is perhaps that of
African slaves learning English in their "new country". Or perhaps a
language used on markets where several tribes meet the new trading
partner.

>And in any case, isn't the "native language" of
> the first generation of creole speakers the preceding pidgin?
>

Well, let's rephrase it with 'pidgin' instead of 'creole'

> This
> > looks like going half the way down the path of creoles, but why
> don't
> > we have a word for that phenomenon? Extending the definition
> > of 'creole' seems the natural way to go.
>
> Evidently not to most linguists though.

Most linguists would not like to think of their native language as a
creole.

Torsten