Re: The Carpathians (Was: Re: [tied] Ukrainian words from Carpathia

"Karpaty" in the modern Slavic languages is a relatively recent borrowing
(not affected by metathesis, which would have given *koropat-, *kropat- or
*krapat-, depending on the language, in a word dating back to Proto-Slavic).
I'm sure it was taken from literary sources, since the mountains were known
as "Karpate:s oros" to Ptolemy and to later geographers. Old Norse
<harfaða-fjöll>, however, demonstrates that the name existed already in
Proto-Germanic times (a couple of centuries BC or so).

Piotr

----- Original Message -----
From: "george knysh" <gknysh@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, May 16, 2003 6:03 PM
Subject: The Carpathians (Was: Re: [tied] Ukrainian words from Carpathians)


>
> --- Piotr Gasiorowski <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> the name of
> > the Carpathians 'the Rockies' (cf. Alb. karpë),
> > which is well over 2000 years old, it may be a
> > surviving substrate word.
> >
> > Piotr
>
> ******GK: When is the term "Carpathian" mountains
> first attested? I don't seem to have this information
> in my notes. In mediaeval Ukraine they were known as
> the "Ugrian" (or "Hungarian") mountains. There is
> evidence that an earlier designation was the
> "Caucasian" mountains ("Kavkasiiskiia"). This is
> usually linked to to Caucoenses mentioned by Ptolemy
> (a Dacian tribe) and the Caucaland noted by Ammianus
> Marcellinus. So what about "Carpathians"? Is the
> relation with the historical Carpi genuine? Would that
> not have given something lke "Karps'kii" or
> "Karpiiskii" in Slavic? Whence this "ath" ? *******