Re: [tied] Re: IE *pe-mn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel J. Milton" <dmilt1896@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 9:58 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: IE *pe-mn


Rom. "pãmânt" has nothing to do with Pokorny 1456 pe:(i) "weh
tun"
It derives from Latin 'pavimentum' (all right, Alex, I can't prove
the Latin doesn't derive from *ProtoRom.) which is from Pokorny 1512
pe:u "schlagen."
Dan


After the fall of "v" ( accepting it went) we have the form
"*paimentum".
From this word whe should have had an *pãimânt and there is no way to
explain the lost of "i" in a resonable way.
Se some other words for comparation:
spaima (fear, cf DEX unknown etym.) > spâimânt, inspãimânt, înspãimânt,
înspãimântare
The word "faimã" (fame) is given too as from latin "fama" which is
imposible to be true.
1) we see the /ai/ is mentained so there is no reason to have been lost
the "i" in pãmânt( < *paimentum)

2) this /ai/ story. The "ai" can be in Rom from an "ei" when in the nex
syllable an /ã/ follows.
The word "faimã" is a very good example since it is explained as
comming from latin "fama" but somehow modiffied after
"defãima" ( to defame) supposed to come from Latin *difammiare.
The problem is even this /ai/. The root wherefrom the Rom. word can
come must be "feme" or "fema".
Being stressed the first /e/ then it became as usual an /ie/. An
unstressed /e/ or /a/ became /ã/.
This /ei/ from /e/, being followed by /ã/ became an /ai/. So, the
regular transformation is:
*feme/*fema > feima > feimã > faimã.
Do we have a such word somewhere? Yes, but this is not a Latin one,
is a Greek one.
The cognate of Latin "fama" is the Greek "feme" which has the form I
need. In this way it seems more a loan from Greek
as from Latin.
3) Beside the semantic shift ( once again) there is the use of the word.
The paveo or its derivatives are unknown in
Romanian since the semantic cognate is "bate" and the cognate for
"pavimentum" should be "bãtãturã"=yard.

Question: was this pavimentum not a urbanlife word ?Or was this word one
used by shepherds ?

P.S. Mr. Iacomi will say for sure this topic was discussed on another
list. Indeed, it was. And there was no better argumentum for accepting
that pavimentum > pãmânt; nor because of the meaning neither because of
the phonetic change.