Re: cardinal points

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex_lycos" <altamix@...> wrote:

> is there a common PIE/Ie denomination for cardinal points?
> It is said that for instance "north" in the Romance is from English.
>
> English north:
> O.E. norð, from P.Gmc. *nurtha-, possibly ult. from Oscan-Umbrian
> "nertro-"(left), as north is to the left when one faces the rising

sun.

> The same notion underlies Ir. tuaisceart "north." The word

for "north"

> in the Romance languages is ultimately from English
>
> English south:
> O.E. suð "southward, in the south," from P.Gmc. *sunthaz, perhaps
> related to base of *sunnon "sun."
>
> English west:
> O.E. west "in or toward the west," from P.Gmc. *wes-t-, from PIE

*wes-

> (source of Gk. hesperos, L. vesper).
>
> English east:
> east - O.E. easten "from the east," from P.Gmc. *austa-, *austra-,

from

> PIE *aus- "to shine" (especially of the dawn).
>
>
> In Rom. there is an another way to tell about the cardinal points

they

> being connected with the sun and with the belief that in North is

born

> the night in south is born the day.
> North: miazã-noapte ( middle of the night)
> South miazã-zi ( middle of the day)
> East: rasarit ( the point where the sun appears on the sky in the
> morning)
> West: apus ( the point where the sun goes down in the evening).
> Of course the Rom. expresions are explained trough Latin

(miazãnoapte=

> mediam noctem, miazãzi=mediam diem). About "apus"(west)is given as a
> Rom. contstruct from " a apune" ( Lat . apponere, even if the

semantism

> doesn't matches, the semantism of Rom. word is explained in the

usual

> way) and about "rãsãrit"( east) is given too as a directly Rom.
> construction from "a rasari" ( to rise, to appear) which should

derive

> from an presumably Latin *resalire
>
> Very interesting I find the denomination for the wind which is

blowing

> from east. It is called "Austrul". The connection with the P. Gmc.
> shouldn't be coincidentally here? I doubt.
> Second, I ask myself if there is a connection betwen Rom. "a

rãsãri"

> and the Germanic world. So we have:
> rise - O.E. risan (usually arisan; class I strong verb; past tense

ras,

> pp. risen), from P.Gmc. *us-risanan "to go up."
>
> Semantically it fits very good , phonetically not exactly. The

vocalism

> gives me trouble.
> The reconstructed root *us-risanan whould be perfect if there

should be

> *us-resanan. I need an "e" there for having an /ã/ in Romanian.
>
> On another hand, one will say " a rasari" is a compound from

prefix "re"

> and "sare"(to jump) meaning " re-jumping which can be seen as the
> "re-jumping" in every day of the sun. Against this idee speaks the

fact

> the verb belongs to the group of verbs which are derivated with 0-

grade

> of the root , meaning the oldest verbs in the language ( rãsar,

rãsari,

> rãsare).
>
> Anyway, it seems interesting the both words in P.Gmc *austra and
> *us-resanan since at the first view, it seems they have cognates in
> Balkan.
>
> Alex

************
PIE root for <noth> is ner-1
Definition 'under, also on the left; hence, with an eastward
orientation, north' (Watkins *ner-1) and, curiously Albanian verb
narth 'to feel cold', present only in AlbG, probably from o grade
form *nor-, extended with diminutive suffix -th. Why from o grade
form, for PIE *o (shot one) gives in Albanian /a/ (cf. natë 'night',
Lat. nox; asht, Lat. os, -ossis 'bone'; na 'we', Lat. nos).
Otherwise, the word for <the north> in Albanian is <veri, ~u>.
I think that its definition must be extended also with Albanian
meaning of the word <narth> 'I feel cold', because the North, as we
know, is the coldest side of the world.

Konushevci