[tied] Re: Troj ( it was ancient sources)

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, "alex_lycos" <altamix@...> wrote:

> P&G wrote:
> >>> mother ("mater") sow, with piglets
> >> It does? Enlighten me. "Sus" and "porca" are all I can find

for a

> >> sow, with or without pigs
> >
> > It does not occur in Classical literature, but is given by a
> > scholiast on Vergil, Aeneid 8:83ff, where Aeneas finds such a sow
> > with piglets and slaughters the lot of them. The point of the

image

> > is that he kills troia / Troia, signifying that at last he has

turned

> > his back on Troy, and is ready to move forward to the foundation

of

> > Rome
> >
> > Peter
>
>
> Interesting. Should one understand that is the explanation of a
> scholiast on Vergil or that the "mater" meant indeed sow?
>
> I tried to find it in Book 8 but I have had no look. In the whole

Aeneid

> the word "porc-" appears only one time and indeed in the Book 8:
>
> "Romulidis Tatioque seni Curibusque severis.
> Post idem inter se posito certamine reges
> armati Iovis ante aram paterasque tenentes
> stabant et caesa iungebant foedera porca. "
>
> Could you please give the whoe sentence where is to find the word
> "mater" with the sense of "sow" ?
> Thank you.

*******
Confusion reigns.
The lines in question (from Perseus)are:
Ecce autem subitum atque oculis mirabile monstrum*;
candida per silvam cum fetu concolor albo*
procubuit viridique in litore* conspicitur sus*.
Quam* pius Aeneas* tibi enim**, tibi, maxuma Iuno*,
mactat* sacra* ferens* et cum grege* sistit ad aram.
The sow is 'sus'. 'Mater' doesn't appear, that was Pete's joke
on Alex's typo of "mater" for "matter" in his original posting.
The first asterisk in the Perseus text is to Servius, who comments
that it was a 'monstrum' because it appeared "subito" and had
thirty! pigs.
The Troy business doesn't appear in Servius -- who was the
scholiast, Pete?
If the scholiast was right, then Vergil was truly being subtle,
leaving it all to the reader (or scholiast) to figure out. I would
think word play on 'troia' would call for the word at this point in
the poem. Was this an old story Vergil expected his readers to
know? Where did Servius get his thirty pigs?
Dan