--- tgpedersen <
tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> On the mix of Iazyges and native Germani
>
> http://classics.mit.edu/Tacitus/annals.8.xii.html
>
> this is ca. 50 AD. As I thought, native Germanic
> infantry, Iranian
> cavalry.
******GK: Certainly not "as you thought". The Iazyges
were the recently (ca. 20 AD) relocated Metanastae,
who occupied the plains of the Alfold (across from
Roman Pannonia) whence they had dislodged the Dacians
(cf. Pliny). They were Vannius' allies, not his
subjects. There is no evidence that they brought any
Bastarneans with them. This has nothing whatever to do
with your "Odin" hallucinations.*******
>
> BTW I wonder if Adorsi = Aorsi?
*****GK: Indeed. Most of them were still east of the
Don in 50 AD, though some groups had crossed it
towards the West, and had become the ruling class of a
revived Scythian state.******
>
> And check
>
> http://www.euratlas.com/time/nea0001.htm
>
> Obviously to get from Tanakvisl (going by the name a
> fork in the Don,
> thus close to the mouth of the river)
*****GK: The Tanakvisl does no refer to the mouth of
the river, but either to the area including its main
tributaries, or, much more preferably, to the area
where the Don is closest to the Volga (some
geographers confused the two rivers because the
Don-Volga portage was easy there).******
to Thuringia
> you cross
> Bastarnean territory (I suppose the won't matter too
> much for the
> location of various peoples that the map is 50 years
> off).
*******GK: If you stick to your source, you will note
that "Odin and company" first travelled from "Asgard"
WEST to "Gardariki". Gardariki, in Snorri's time was
Kyivan Rus' and its associates ("the land of
strongholds"), including the important (for the Old
Norse) stronghold of Holmgard (Novgorod). Here we
should read WEST as "north and west", north along the
Volga then west eventually reaching the Holmgard area.
This route, well known to the Norse, already existed
at the time of Jordanes.== Afterwards, "Odin and
company" went SOUTH to Saxland. This means (in order
to make any geographical sense at all) that they
travelled from the area of Novgorod to northern
Germany (via the Baltic). That's the only possibility
if you're going SOUTH from Gardariki. So even on
Snorri's geography the Bastarneans cannot be involved
in "Odin's trek". Pritsak thought (and this is
possible) that Snorri was describing the route from
Khazaria to Scandinavia, with "Odin" representing the
impulse which resulted in the reform of the futhark.
But even so, Snorri's account confuses many things:
Troy legends, Norse explorations along the Volga,
Gothic lore perhaps. There is nothing "historical"
about it. And your dating of it, plus everything else
you've advanced (esp. the Bastarneans) is naive and
ridiculous beyond belief. As for the Osi, they were a
Pannonian tribe, which paid tribute to the Iranian
Iazyges. But I suppose that hallucinations are at a
premium here.*******
>
> Torsten
>
>
>
>
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