From: alex_lycos
Message: 19377
Date: 2003-02-27
----- Original Message -----
From: <a_konushevci@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 8:19 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: alb. gji
It's very hard to say did the Latin stringere is Albanian shtrengoj.
Concerning the participle strictus, I doubt yes, because Albanian
form is i (e) shtrejtë, standard form i(e) shtrenjtë, due to the
wellknown phonological rule of turning the Latin /-ct-/ > /-jt-/
(cmp. Lat. directus > Alb. i(e) drejtë, Lat. pactus > Alb. pajtoj,
etc.). I doubt, because plain guturals after the front vowels,
speciallu after the i, and e, are turned to palatals, so it's very
hard to exept that shtrëngoj is a Latin loan
This is a point why I asked. And now I doubt more as before this is a
Latin loan. The standard phonological rule should have made in Romanian
an "strept" but not a "strâns" .And the presence of "n" here is too a
strong argument. Such a word can put even under the question if there
was indeed an Latin ct > pt in Rom. and ct > jt in Alb ( is ther lufta =
lupta from Latin "lucta"? Hmm, I guessed that latin "ct" gave an "ft" in
Albanian, but why I wonder, it seems Latin did just irregular things in
Eastern Romance; BTW is in Albanian a word like "koftor"= oven supposed
to come from latin *coctorium?)
OK, now to Latin "stringo":
The Romanian form is "strânge" which can derive from Latin 'stringere',
but the participial form shows there is no Latin form here. For
participial form we have:
Latin : strictus
Romanian : strâns , expected *strept ( strictus > strEptu > strept)
The whole family is made with "stran-" : streang, strângere, strâns,
strânsura, strânsoare, strânsãtura
I see the Albanian and Romanian have both the nasal "n" there which
cannot come from Latin. But the cluster "n" is to find in :
greek: strangulou where from Latin loaned "strangulo"
ahd : strang
old nordic:= strangr
lett. : stringt
One should keep in mind that Latin "strangulo" is not present in
Romanian but it is a neologism , the word for this one being "spânzura"
which is to relate ( I guess ) with Germanic "spannen"
Strange seems to me an another one. I speak here about the latin
"strabus". This one should have given in Rom. "strâmb"=crocked, slantig,
curved
I am aware of the explanation that "strambus" found in some glosses is
identic with "strabus"= bandy-legged which in Romanian = crãcãnat but
not "strâmb".
The explanation is given due "Geminantenersatz
But for the Rom. word and the Albanian word "sthrëmb" in both languages
there is a big family of derivatives:
Let see the rom. with albanian cognates:
strâmb, strâmba, strâmbaciune, strâmbãtate, strâmbet, strâmbãturã
shtrëmb, shtrembërim, shtrembëron, shtrembë,shtrembët, shtrembërues
I doubt honestly if all these are the result of Latin "strabus" which
semantically don't matches to Alb. and Romanian words even if one argue
that a person which is suffering of 'strabismus" is one who "looks
shtrëmb" but this can be said just for fun.
One will ask, is there any other cognates in this big IE world? I don't
know exactly.
I thought there is maybe the Germanic family again. The word "krumm"
looks very appropiate
krumm: ahd= chrump, Old English= crumb, ahd., verb = "krimphan"
But could we put "str"- = (s)kr- ? From the forms (s)kr- I guess it is
possible to get both forms (str and kr) but from str I doubt we can get
a Germanic "kr". I guess here some help should do good..
Alex