Re: [tied] More nonsense: Is English /d/ truely voiced?

On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:02:15 +0000, "Glen Gordon"
<glengordon01@...> wrote:

>
>Patrick:
>>A final voiced stop in English has the second voicing only in
>>emphatic speech. Normally, "cad" is [k-h-a-V-t]. Thus, in final
>>position has "partial" voicing.
>
>Alright, and I would guess such environments would be likely to
>have this "partial", or even absence of, voicing. With me,
>I think a reasonable transcription of my pronunciation of
>"cat" and "cad" would be [kHa.t] and [kHa?].

Viceversa, no?

>So just the slight
>vowel length difference alone could be the cue for the perceived
>voicing here without there being any true voicing. I can accept
>this.
>
>However, Miguel's claim of voicelessness in even initial
>position is really pushing the limit. Patrick has a point.
>I agree with him that voicing occurs BEFORE release of /d-/,

All I can say is "show me a spectrogram". By all accounts, sentence
initial /b/, /d/, /g/ are voiceless/devoiced both in RP and AE in
normal speech (certain Northern English and Scots dialects have truly
voiced initial stops).

>even if it is just before. And I can tell the difference
>between a voiceless initial /d/ (as in Mandarin) and a
>voiced, even if it is "partially", voiced /d/, in English.

I'm sure there is a difference in VOT.

>As for medial position, there ain't NO way that I'm pronouncing
>medial voiced stops without voice. That's just a total fib. In
>fact, I have even caught myself being lazy, voicing voiceless
>medial stops as well.

Yes, pronouncing intervocal /t/ as [r*] (alveolar flap/tap) is common
in North American English (and not only there).


=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...