Re[2]: [tied] More nonsense: Is English /d/ truely voiced?

At 12:53:14 AM on Friday, February 21, 2003, Glen Gordon
wrote:

> Brian argues (quite literally) with a quote from L&M:

>> It is well known that in some languages, English being a
>> familiar example, the vocal folds may not vibrate
>> throughout the closure for a voiced stop.

> In other words, the vocal folds **may** not vibrate
> **throughout** the closure for a voiced stop -- or rather,
> they are partially voiced as was stated in the link I
> supplied. The major difference between /d/ and /t/ in
> English is truely voicing.

*The* major difference? No. Aspiration is noticeably more
important; that's why unaspirated voiceless stops are often
heard by English speakers as voiced stops. By the way, the
rest of the quotation -- the part that you snipped -- makes
it clear that devoicing during the stop is common in
English. Once again you seem to be trying to impose a
binary opposition on a rather more complicated reality.

[...]

> There are probably many other geographical and historical
> factors that play a part in my manner of speaking that rub
> you the wrong way.

'Tisn't your manner of speaking; it's your manners and
inability to see shades of grey. Never mind; I'm done with
this thread.

Brian