Re: [tied] A truncated snake

Miguel Carrasquer wrote:

> On Fri, 07 Feb 2003 23:11:00 +0100, Piotr Gasiorowski
> <piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
>
>> The Albanian word is clearly a reflex of *sérpen- (as if from
>> *serpenos, which however looks a little dubious as a PIE form). In
>> addition to <gjarpër> and its transparent derivatives, there's also
>> an old pl./coll. form, <shtërpinj> 'adders', which has developed
>> differently because of its different stress pattern (*serpéni: >
>> *sh(t)rpéni > shtërpínj, with epenthetic <ë>). I'd like to learn
>> what our Romanian experts have to say about Rom. $arpe, but I think
>> it's likely to be the same word as in Albanian, *sErpe < *sérpen
>> which makes the most sense as a reanalysis of Lat. sérpens (oblique
>> <serpénte-> would have undergone a completely different evolution in
>> Romanian)
>
> The old consonant/i-stems (Latin class III) often retain the
> nominative form in Romanian. E.g. frate < frater (not fratrem which
> would have given *fratre), oaspe < hospes (not hospitem, which would
> have given something like *oaspete). Another example is indeed, as you
> mentioned, nume < nomen, not nominem. The normal development of
> *sérpens is *sieárpe > s,arpe
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...

Miguel, not only Latin have had the form "frater" but Greek too so far I
see ( frate).
Just as matter of fact, why should dissapier the "r" from frater?
The greek form doesnt has an "r" as well as romanian one. Just on this
basis I will ask myself why the rom. word is not the greek one? Of
course there is very difficult to say which should be the origin, if
this is an latin, greek or an another one. The toponym "Frateria" in
the Getic theritory is supposed to be a Latin one. I am not aware if
Latins called in the qonquested countries cities with suffix "ia".And in
Getic space this is not just only one time , but several times and not
with usual latin "ae" but with "ia":

Appiaria, Amutria, Angustia, Bria, Frateria, Acmonia, Ergamia, for
instance.

From these the "Frateria" and "Angustia" are considerated to be Latin
names, the rest should be dacian. And why just there in "-ia"? Why a
quiet selden word as "angustia" to be found there in Dacia? Just to make
me trouble I guess. Because then I ask myslef what is with romanian
"îngust" ? Is this Latin , is this not? And so on....

The toponyms in "la" are too intersting; for instance "Genoucla" has the
same form as Latin "genuc(u)lum" but this is a dacian toponym. In so far
I ask myslef is Romanian "genunchi" from the Latin word "genuc-" or from
Dacian word "genouc-" ?

I guess step by step you will understand my very interesse for
substratum here..


Alex