From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 17953
Date: 2003-01-22
----- Original Message -----
From: Jean Kelly <jeffcob@...>
To: Cybalist <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 11:38 AM
Subject: [tied] *Yemo and *Manu; creation myth
> Hi Glen, everyone
>
> Glen
> >So, if *Yemos is the earth, who is *Manus supposed to be?
> Although I think he is meant to be the "first man", our
> not-so-perfect ancestor who commits a tragic sin, I have a
> feeling that he has a special link with the sky. Hence the
> dual opposition idea.
>
> >*Yemos seems to be this "Primordial Man". You see,
> *Yemos would be slain by his bad brother, and by being slain
> or "sacrificed", his body became the earth.
>
> This is dealt with in Lincoln, B., "The Indo-European Myth of Creation",
> History of Religions 15 (1975) 121-145; and (1991), "Death, War and
> Sacrifice: Studies in Ideology and Practice", Chicago: 34-35]; and Puhvel,
> J., "Remus et Frater" in History of Religions 15 (1975) 146-157. Your
> intuition about *Manu and the sky is certainly interesting, but no mention
> of such an association appears in Lincoln's papers.
>
> Dan Milton:
> >I did read a book a few years ago, specifically on the Roman myth
> of Remus, that seemed to me to thoroughly refute Puhvel's twin
> theory, at least as it applied to Remus. Sorry I don't remember the
> details, or even the reference.
>
> I'd be intersted in looking up this refutation, if a reference could be
> found.
>
> Glen:
> >The cosmic egg motif is _related_ to
> the world-view that I just illustrated. You remember that I
> said that the very original concept was a goddess giving
> birth to the universe. The very reason why she is female is
> for the fact that women give birth, not men.
>
> > In the beginning, there was only Darkness (symbolized
> as a large female black bird) flying forever over the
> primordial waters. She had nowhere to perch because
> there was as yet no land. So she gave birth to an egg
> and when the egg hatched, a great tree grew from it.
> As it grew, it seperated the sky from the waters.
> Now the great Goddess could rest upon its branches.
>
> Yes, but women give birth to babies, not eggs. The goddess that you
mention
> in the creation myth is symbolized by a bird that gives birth to an egg.
> The goddess is not described as a big lady (which is where this discussion
> started) - and none of the archaic figurines discussed previously is
> depicted as accompanied by an egg.
>
> >what is _your_ interpretation? And again, why exactly do
> you not accept it when you admit that it makes sense???
>
> My own theory is that these myths could have an astronomical basis. You
> don't agree, because (correct me if I'm wrong), in your view, the concepts
> involved (ecliptic, celestial equator, and so on) are too sophisticated,
and
> it is more likely that creation myths were based on straightforward,
> everyday observation of the earth, sky, sea, and so forth. On the face of
> it, therefore, your theory makes sense. Nevertheless, I disagree with it
> because I think that the level of interest in astronomical matters, as
> suggested by people like Alexander Gurshtein and Michael Rappenglueck, was
> more sophisticated than you suppose.
>
> Dan Milton
> > "When most people look at stone-age cave paintings, they see
> > charging bulls, prancing reindeer and other animals.
> > Dr. Michael A. Rappenglueck also sees maps of the night sky, and
> > images of shamanistic ritual teeming with cosmological meaning."
> > BBC should be ashamed of publicizing such nonsense.
> > My opinion.
> >
>
> Piotr Gasiorowski:
> >Mine too.
>
> I'm not too sure about the latest Orion/carving identification proposed by
> Rappenglueck, but he has produced interesting theories in the past, e.g.,
> "The Pleiades in the 'Salle des Taureaux' Grotte de Lascaux. Does a rock
> picture in the cave of Lascaux show the open star cluster of the Pleiades
at
> the Magdalenien era (ca 15,300 BC)?", in C. Jaschek and F. Atrio
Barandela,
> Proceedings of the IVth SEAC Meeting Astronomy and Culture, Salamanca,
> Universidad de Salamanca, 1997. Whilst they are highly controversial,
these
> theories imply the burgeoning of the sort of concern with astronomy that I
> mentioned earlier.
>
> >Oh, Jean, sometimes I wish I could beat you over the head with
> a big rubber chicken.
>
> Presumably a rubber chicken that had just finished laying a giant rubber
> cosmic egg?
>
> Cluck-cluck,
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jean Kelly
>
>
>
>
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