Re: [tied] house and hip

From: alex_lycos
Message: 17546
Date: 2003-01-12

m_iacomi@... wrote:
> "alex_lycos" <altamix@...> wrote:
> The confusion between /ks/ and /s/ starts in late Latin, but is
> not generalized (see for instance hypercorrect forms in AP: "miles
> non milex", "aries non ariex", "poples non poplex", etc.; see also
> common spelling errors like "vissit" for "vixit"). Not being quite
> generalized, it still gives different reflexes in Eastern Romance
> (e.g. Vegl. <kopsa>)

I tried to find out what means this "late latin". A period of years
would be more clearly as the expression "late Latin".
Would you please concretely specify between which centuries is the time
considerate to be "late Latin"?

>> I am not joking. The "x" in Latin was since long time an "s". For
>> verifying please see the verb " a lasa" which is coming from Latin
>> "laxare"
> Alex has had already the occasion to learn where the difference is
> coming from. He did not use it, though
> For the others: Latin /ks/ > Balkan Romance /ps/ > Romanian /s/
> _if_preceeding_stressed_vowel_. So, the evolution is not
> laxare (Lat.) > *lassare (late Latin) > lãsa(re) (Romanian) but
> laxare > *lapsare (intermediate Romance) > lãsa(re) (Romanian).
> Regards,
> Marius Iacomi

Which latin "cs" when as the romans conquered Balkans there was no "cs"
anymore in latin? You want to have a proto-romanian *lapsare. I agree ,
it could be. But you today have "coapsa" and "lasa". That means that the
rule works as the another one (Candrea's rule with intervocalic "b" &
"v" which syncope).
If these rules works for one example and doesn't work for another
example there are not rules at all.
Interesting, Rosetti says here, the Latin "x" is represented in Romanian
trough "s" or "S" not trough "ps" but he doesn't fully exclude the
possibility of becoming an "ps" in "coapsa" since he doesn't see an
another possibility of etymology of Romanian "coapsa".
Latin "maxilla"=jaw(bone)> Rom. "mãsea" molar
beside of -again- semantic change maxilla/mãsea, why a "ll" disappeared
here, this is a wonder too.
exit= ieSi, laxare= lasa.
In Albanian is an another interesting word which can be put in
connection with "coapsa".
kofshe: = Oberschenkel, Hüfte
koftare: =Glidmassen ( Arme und Beine von Körper getrent)
It seems is not so simple to say it derive from Latin. The Homeric
Greek, let us know a lot of terms which are to find today in Balkans
languages with the same form ( see Omulus, Celeris, Calaris, see
Romanian omul, calare, calareti, etc.)
You see Piotr makes hiselm a lot of trouble regarding the vocalism of a
root but for latin > romanian goes everything? I guess here too we must
let the curch in the village and we have to take just what we can take
from latin but not everything.
Please do not misunderstand me. I have nothing against Latin. I just
have the feeling that Latin is overlicited and that is all.Unfortunately
this is a PIE list but Latin appears so much in discusion because there
is the impression from old idioms of thracian and celto-iberians is
nothing left. And I always must show first why is not probable that an
word derives from Latin and after this step I can try to see other
cognates in other languages:-(