Re: [tied] PIE *ueid, *uid

From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 17376
Date: 2003-01-03

P&G wrote:
> PIE did indeed appear to have had *weid and *wid. Much much later
> indidivual languages did ther own things to those forms. Greek lost
> the /w/, and the Romance (post Latin) langauges hardened the /w/ to a
> /v/. It has nothing to do with PIE, or with the particular form.
> As for your problem deriving Romanian uita from Latin obitus,
> remember that Late Latin / b / softened to a / B / (bilabial
> fricative) very similar to /w/. This caused a collapse in the verb
> system, which could no longer easily distinguish between, for
> example, amavit and amabit. So although I don't know the details for
> Romanian, I can assert that Late Latin oblitus would become oBlit-,
> which could conceivably pass on to Blit- > Bit > uit-. I note
> that initial /bl / survives in Romanian, but I can find no
> information on intervocalic examples.
> Peter

The "oblitus" gave in French "oublier"= to forget. I don't know what it
gave in other Romance, maybe Miguel helps us a bit here.

An "bl" in Romanian doesn't disappear, just -it is said - an
intervocalic /b/ .Anyway the rule is working in Romanian every 5 words.

You are trying to find Latin "bl" intervocalic in Romanian words?

Rosetti doesn't speak about the Latin group "bl" into romanian
language.I doubt there is any inherited. So , new words you will have
"obliga", "cablu", and of course slavic words as "oblu", "oblânc" and
word with unknown etymology as "oblon"=rolling shutter, plants with
unknown etymology as "obligeana" (Acorus calamus), fish like "oblitsa".

Here is interesting to know what you mean with "late Latin". The earlier
contacts of proto Romanians with Slavs should have been already in the
V-VI centuries. We are not sure when Slavic words like "oblU",
"oblonkÚ", "oblojiti" entered in the proto Romanians language. But these
Slavic words still have the cluster "bl" in rom. lang.

It doesn't seems to me the intervocalic "bl" was reduced to "b" .

But beside the phonetically aspect, how you would explain the sense of
"to look" ?

I wonder about this point to see the things. So there is the PIE *uid
which is phonetically very appropriate with the Rom. word, the semantism
is the same and I try to derive it from Latin trough a lot of
transformations? Which should be the reason here?