Re: [tied] the tongue

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 17249
Date: 2002-12-22

The PIE word was *dn.g^Huh2 (with irregular treatment of the initial in several branches). The development of d- > l- in Latin dingua > lingua is not unprecedented (cf. dacruma > lacruma 'tear'). The word was certainly influenced in a folk-etymological manner by (formally unrelated!) <lingo:> 'lick' (PIE *leig^H-).

The development lingua [liNgwa] > Rom. limbã is phonologically regular (gw > b). So is lingula > lingurã, since /u/ is syllabic in this word, and we expect Rom. b from Lat. phonetic [gw] only, not from [gu]. In Lat. lingere there's no /u/ at all, so what's your problem with it?


----- Original Message -----
From: <alexmoeller@...>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2002 12:14 PM
Subject: [tied] the tongue

> The tongue :
> tongue - O.E. tunge "organ of speech, speech, language," from P.Gmc.
> *tungon, from PIE *dnghwa-. Meaning "foreign language" is from 1535.
> Tongue-tied is first recorded 1529; tongue-in-cheek is modern, but the
> notion behind it is obscure.
> German cognates: "zunge", Swedish. "tunga", Gothic: "tuggo" ( with long
> "o".
> Latin cognates: lingua, lingere
> old Latin : dingua.
> Romanian = limba.
> One will say, the Romanian word is a loan from Latin , cf. rules, Latin
> "ng" > "mb" in Romanian.
> I will agree here but, for "to lick" in Romanian, tehre is " a linge"
> and "spoon"= "lingura"
> The derivatives in Rom. lang. are all on the basis of these two words:
> to lick and tongue.
> Rom. spoon "lingura" is supposed to come from Latin "lingula" where the
> semantism as usual, doesn't matches.
> The question is now, there is clear we have two words , two different
> words: limba and linge.
> If the PIE root is indeed *dnghwa I have a problem with "b" in romanian.
> The root *dngwa will explain the "b" in romanian but it wont explain the
> "l" .
> The Latin word "lingula"= a tongue of land has from the semantic point
> of view in Romanian a cognate can be the word called "dunga"
> "dunga de pamant". Of course it is used too the expression "limba de
> pamant". Dunga= cf DEX from Slavic "dongo" whereby I have no idea what
> lavic "dongo" means.
> It remains again the "l" in romanian and latin word which I have no
> explanation for "d" > "l" or "du" > "li".
> As the children do, they get the tongue out and make fun " I made a joke
> with you"; there is the rom. verb " a scalâmba", which has an another
> meaning as " to difform, to malformate". DEX gives it with unkown
> etymology, but I guess there is the prefix "sca" ( am not sure if this
> is really a preffix) + root "limba" > scalâmba.
> It is prety hard to say now, which one is the latin word in romanian and
> which one from another language?
> regards, Alex
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