Re: [tied]_Does_Koenraad_Elst_Meet_Hock´s_Challenge?

From: george knysh
Message: 17125
Date: 2002-12-11

--- Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Dec 2002 02:18:49 +0100 (MET), Jens
> Elmegaard Rasmussen
> <jer@...> wrote:
> In relation to this, George Knysh wrote:
> >But the
> >reverse relationship, viz., the growing and
> eventually
> >overwhelming influence of steppe cultures on the
> west
> >is richly documented in the archaeological
> >literature.*****
> The influence of steppe cultures on the "west" is
> only richly
> documented for the Balkan peninsula. There is no
> proof of steppe
> involvement in the genesis of the Globular Amphora
> and Corded Ware
> cultures more to the north.

*****GK: I agree as to GA, and will resist (until
proof is available) the temptation to assume the
presence of "invisible" elements from the east to
explain its emergence (:=))). In any event GA was
eventually assimilated into a later phase of CW. But
as to Corded Ware your contention does not hold. The
Early Corded Ware which Mallory ignored (or did not
know about) had very close connections to Serednyj
Stih and Lower Mykhajlivka as to burial rites,
ceramics, and economic activity. These groups, as I
mentioned, began to push westward into the Trypilian
and easternmost Funnel Beaker zones ca. 3750 BC, that
is to say BEFORE the constitution (or arrival)of the
Yamna culture east of them, and BEFORE the
constitution of GA west of them. They are synchronous
with such Late Trypilian groups as Horodsk and
Kasperivtsi (in fact they bypassed them and located
more to the west), and Vykhvatyntsi [where the
exogamous cemeteries I mentioned were discovered] and
Usatovo [the famous "steppe"-Trypilian hybrid
culture]. This is the "missing link".*******

In my opinion, we have
> an archaeological
> stalemate: The Pontic/Caspian ("Kurgan") theory
> cannot explain the
> Indo-Europeans of the "north" (because there is no
> direct (genetic)
> link Sredny Stog/Yamnaya => TRB/Globular
> Amphora/Corded Ware.

*****GK: The "missing link" adequately explains the
appearance of Corded Ware in the west from the east,
though Mallory had difficulties because he was
comparing a later phase of CW to Yamna. Clearly Yamna
was not its immediate donor culture, but both Yamna
and CW derived principally (though not
exclusively)from Late Serednyj Stih and Lower
Mykhajlivka elements. There is no archaeological
stalemate here.******

And the
> Linear Pottery theory cannot explain the
> Indo-Europeans of the "east"
> because there is no direct (genetic) link
> Tripolje/LBK/TRB =>
> Bug-Dnestr/Dnepr-Donets.

******GK: Here you are exactly right.*****
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...

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