Re: [tied]_Does_Koenraad_Elst_Meet_Hock´s_Challenge?

From: george knysh
Message: 17082
Date: 2002-12-10

--- Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
> On Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:56:17 -0800 (PST), Juha
> Savolainen
> <juhavs@...> wrote:
> >Do you accept Mallory�s set of five principles? And
> if
> >you do, what would be your best guesstimate for the
> IE
> >homeland?
> My best guesstimate for the homeland is the Balkan
> peninsula,
> 6500-5500 BC (calibrated). The Linear Ware (LBK)
> expansion into the
> Northern European Lowlands (from Hungary to Denmark,
> from Holland to
> Poland, and further into the Ukranian steppelands),

*****GK: There was no expansion of LBK into the
Ukrainian steppelands. Its easternmost point in
Ukraine was at Borysivka on the Middle Dnister, which
is a considerable distance from the steppes. It did
however expand towards the southeast into Moldavia and
Rumania. There is as yet no evidence that LBK
influenced (or Indo-Europeanized) cultural groups to
the east, such as Bog-Dnister, Dnipro-Donetsk, and
Sursk. Its Ukrainian outpost disappeared without a
trace. We discussed some issues pertinent to this in
October/November 2001.******

> marks the
> separation of Anatolian (stay-behinds in the
> Balkans) from the rest of
> PIE (the Linear Pottery folk). Next to break away
> was Pre-Tocharian
> (eastwards into the steppes), and then, more
> gradually, peripheral
> groups began to differentiate to the north
> (Germanic) and south
> (Armenian) of the central area (from where
> Italo-Celtic,
> Balto-Slavic(-Albanian), Greek and Indo-Iranian
> expanded subsequently,
> after 3500 BC).

*****GK: I don't see how one can demonstrate on
archaeological grounds that Balto-Slavic and
especially Indo-Iranian (+Nuristani) expanded from a
central area identified with the territory occupied by
LBK. That is why I find the Balkan theory of IE
origins less convincing than the Pontic/Caspian
approach of Mallory/Gimbutas, though it is infinitely
preferable to "out of India", much preferable to
Gamkrelidze/Ivanov, and certainly better than classic

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