Re: [tied] Re: the surname LOPES/LOPEZ : name LOPO/LOPE : Latin, Ce

From: Che
Message: 16509
Date: 2002-10-24

In my opinion it's more like an assertation of the Basque roots of Castilian language and people: Otsoa (wolf) has remained today as a quite spread surname (under it's non-normative Spanish-like spelling "Ochoa")
This name is thought to be a usual Iberic patronimic attested within the Iberoroman population which has produced several Catalan surnames (of course from its Latin form and of course with the usual palatalisation of the initial "l") like Llopart as well as several references to "indigenous clans" using this patronimic by Carolingian officers. These may discard a Germanic origin and point to a preroman source.
The question is, Iberic or Basque?
As you may know, Basques are thought to lack of their "own" religious/magical beliefs and it's assumed they were prone to adopt their neighbours', being these Iberic, Celtic or Celtiberic. Then there are all those "cultural prestige" reasons: Iberics were definitively more advanced than Basques, so the same way it was Punics and Greeks who had an inluence over Iberics, it'd rather be Iberics who had an influence over Basques: wolf worshipping is more likely to be an Iberic tradition adopted by Basques rather than the opposite.
Then, the jump from Basque to Castilian is just one more of the connections between Bizkaians and Castilians.
----- Original Message -----
From: tgpedersen
Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: the surname LOPES/LOPEZ : name LOPO/LOPE : Latin, Celtic, Germanic, Basque?

--- In cybalist@......, Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@......> wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Oct 2002 22:12:38 -0000, "Richard Wordingham"
> <richard.wordingham@......> wrote:
> >'Lope' is not the only Spanish name ending in '-e' when one would
> >expect '-o'.  'Felipe' (ultimately from Greek Philippos) is
> >example.  Is it possible that the '-e' is actually a survival of
> >vocative ending? 
> Good idea.  Alas, what little information I have on old Castilian
> (mainly an article "La apócope de la vocal en castellano antiguo",
by Rafael
> Lapesa, 1951) tells a different story.  It is well known that in
Old Castilian
> documents final -e was apocopated in far more cases than in modern
Spanish (e.g.
> prinçep, noch, cort, present, romanz).  In some cases even -o was
> especially in proper names, and especially in the combination name
+ patronymic.
> A form like Hernán (< Fernando) is a good example that has
survived.  This also
> solves the mistery of the /p/ in Lope.  The name was Lobo,
apocopated to Lob
> (e.g. an attested form Lob Diez).  In final position, the
distinction between -b
> and -p was neutralized, and we have many attested cases of Lop in
> documents.  When -e was restored (modern: príncipe, noche, corte,
> romance), it was also restored on apocopated forms like Lop or
Felip, giving
> Lope and Felipe.
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...

Might this have been a Castillian attempt to (re)assert the
independence of their language from Catalan?


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