Re: [tied] Re: sanskrit "bhuman"

From: João Simões Lopes Filho
Message: 16116
Date: 2002-10-10

This post reminded me the PIE "Underworld Snake", Greek Python (<*bHudH-),
Indian Ahir Budhnya (< *egHis bHudH-n-iyo-), Norse Nidhöggr. Perhaps we can
add Avestan Az^i Dahaka (<*egHi-), Greek couple Typhon (<*dHubH- "dark") and
Ekhidna (<*egHi- "snake, viper") and Irish Domnu (<*dHubH- "dark, deep,
A monstruous female serpent, dwelling in the dark Underworld, maybe opposite
to the Giant Bird living in the sky (Garuda, Simurgh, Hraesvelgr?,
Yggdrasill's Eagle)

Joao SL
Rio, Brasil

----- Original Message -----
From: m_iacomi <m_iacomi@...>
To: <>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 6:40 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: sanskrit "bhuman"

--- In cybalist@..., alexmoeller@... wrote:

>> No, *bHudH-m(e)n- (related e.g. to Skt. budHna- 'ground', as well
>> as to Eng. bottom, Ger, boden, Gk. putHme:n, Lat. fundus), and
>> *bHuh2-m(e)n- (> IIr *bHu:man-, also *bHu:mi-, *bHu:mi: 'the
>> earth, world', related to Gk. pHu:ma 'growth'), are two different
>> words from different though similar-looking roots. *bHeuh2- meant
>> 'grow, arise, be'.
> [Moeller]
> that is that! thank you Piotr.
> now I am sure that rom pãmânt is not latin pavimentum.

You may say anithing starting with "no" and Alex will read is
as "yes", supporting its' theory (or Vinereanu's).

> so, I do not see why I have to accept this pavimentum for
> romanian root when I have a more simple evolution from PIE as
> from latin where the semnatic matches too.
> *bhuman>puman(t)>pamant

REW 6312. pavi:mentum "Fussboden", "Estrich"
Rum. pãmânt "Erde", "Welt", ital. palmento "Ort, wo gekelteit wird",
"Kelter", "Muehle", "Mahlwerk", log. pamentu "Fussboden"; [...]

pauio, -is, itum, -ire: battre la terre pour l'aplanir; niveler.
Presque uniquement employe dans l'expression technique pauire terram
Derives et composes: pauimentum, -i n.: terre battue; puis pave,

Phonetically, the Logudorese "pamentu" proves there is no problem
of derivation: a vernacular late Latin form "*paumentu(m)" should
be the "missing link" (see also M.L. Wagner: Historische Lautlehre
des Sardischen: "$33 - Vortoniges [au] wird wie betontes ($37) zu
[a]: [...] pamEntu, log., pomEntu, camp. (mit Velarisierung durch
die Labialen, $37) = *paumentum [...]"). Unstressed /e/ > /&/ (<ã>)
and stressed /e/ before /n/ (or /m/) > /1/ (<â>) are regular in
Semantically, there is no difficulty to slip from the meaning of
"terre battue" to "terre" plain and simple. In fact, as already
explained somewhere else, this "beaten soil" was the floor inside
peasants' houses: people finally designed the substance itself with
the same word for "floor", "ground".

OTOH, Sanskrit word has nothing to do with modern Romanian: in
order to give the somehow similar word, the real stem bHu:- meaning
"earth", "place", "sacred land", etc. has to be composed with a
suffix we don't have any trace of in Balkan languages, being also
phonetically very unlikely.

Of course, nobody but Vinereanu supports this word derivation.

Marius Iacomi

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