Re: [tied] Re: Does Saussure's Law Apply Synchronically to Lithuani

From: Miguel Carrasquer
Message: 16069
Date: 2002-10-08

On Tue, 08 Oct 2002 10:48:45 -0000, "Richard Wordingham"
<richard.wordingham@...> wrote:

>--- In cybalist@..., Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Oct 2002 20:08:40 -0000, "Richard Wordingham"
>> <richard.wordingham@...> wrote:
>> What does it mean to be _underlyingly_ acute or circumflex?
>Saussure's law is
>> a soundlaw (or supra-soundlaw, if you will), so there must have
>been something
>> physical to cause the accent shift.
>One could ask what an 'underlying circumflex' is in Greek(?) -
> :)

Well, either historically circumflex (at a time when Greek may have
distinguished pitches in a unaccented syllable), or as you say:

>An 'underlyingly circumflex' syllable would be one that would be
>circumflex if it were to receive the accent, e.g. the first syllable
>of krau~jas, which has nominative plural kraujai~.

I.e., underlyingly in a mobile paradigm.

>You point out that 'there must have been something physical'.
>However, it need not still exist, and it appears that Saussure's law
>has now been grammaticalised.


>I had been basing my understanding on the following statement in
>Lockwood's 'Indo-European Philology':
>'Accents are used in philological works since the type of accent
>varies and is not bound to a particular syllable. The accent is
>predominantly one of stress. If the stressed vowel is short it is
>marked with a grave: _galvà_ 'head'. Stressed long vowels have
>either a falling or rising intonation...'
>As Lockwood only mentions intonation differences in _stressed_
>syllables, and Classical Greek only (contrastively) distinguished
>intonation in stressed syllables with long nuclei, I assumed that the
>same applied to Lithuanian.

Not at the time that e.g. Saussure's and Leskien's (acute final syllable
shortened, no matter if accented or not) laws operated.

>An interesting thought occurs to me - has a stress difference
>*rankómus v. *galvomùs been replaced by a difference ran~koms v.

That doesn't seem work for the Ipl. ran~komis ~ galvomìs, where in the mobile
form the stressed syllable was not deleted (and stress therefore not retracted).

Miguel Carrasquer Vidal