Re: Pliny's "Guthalus"

From: tgpedersen
Message: 15988
Date: 2002-10-07

--- In cybalist@..., Piotr Gasiorowski <piotr.gasiorowski@...>
> > Are you thinking of the Narva river? It has Germanic connections
also, Danish /nor/ "inlet, lagoon". Any connection with the Neuri
(talking of river peoples)?
> No, the name Nrowa is no longer used (I think it was replaced by
Utrata about the 18th century), and only the diminutive Nrówka >
Mrówka has survived as the tributary's name. The Utrata empties into
the Bzura, which in turn is a western tributary to the Vistula. But
the name Nrowa appears to be related to that of the Narew (a major
eastern tributary of the Vistula system; the name, Old Polish <Nari>
= Nary <-- *Naru:s was borrowed from West Baltic during the Middle
Ages). There are other *nar(u)- hydronyms in the Baltic area, e.g.
lith. Narupe, OPr. Narus. Nrowa < *norwa < *norwa: might very well be
the same name (only borrowed much earlier) with the regular feminine
ending added to *noru-. Any connection with the Neuri (*nerw-oi?)
could only be proposed with extreme speculativeness.

Are we talking about the same Narva? I was thinking of the one
dividing Estonia from Russia (and border town of same name).

Is the Danish word related to West Germanic, *narw-a- 'narrow'? The
latter can also mean the narrow part of a river, strait, etc.
Yes. It's used mainly in place names, of lagoons with a narrow access
from the sea, eg Korsør Nor on the Great Belt. Cf. the ON "arrow"

> Piotr