[tied] Re: More numbers

From: tgpedersen
Message: 15894
Date: 2002-10-03

--- In cybalist@..., "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., Miguel Carrasquer <mcv@...> wrote:
> > On Tue, 01 Oct 2002 13:13:36 -0000, "tgpedersen"
> wrote:
> >
> > >> >Notice also Guanche (Tenerife) cansa "five".
> > >>
> > >> Borrowed from Semitic, like arba "4".
> > >
> > >I wish I had your conviction of mind, w.r.to the direction of
> > >loaning, I mean. /k/ (I asssume it is)
> >
> > Probably /x/, as Guanche was glossed by Spaniards (and at the
> Spanish
> > didn't have a velar fricative).
> Nice try. /k/ is /k/.
> >
> > >vs. /h/ seems to suggest the
> > >other direction (but Gran Canaria simus-etti might be loaned the
> > >direction you want it to, ie. from a Semitic language to Greater
> > >Canaria;
> >
> > No. simusetti is clearly Berber.
> We were talking about direction.
> >
> > =======================
> > Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> > mcv@...
> Torsten

I was looking at Marc Verhaegen's old proposal (see


) that Dutch touw (rope) and tooien (decorate) are related (they
are, tooien is probably umlauted, cf Danish tov "rope", fortøje "moor
(ship)", ie fasten with ropes; Latin /duco/ "lead" is a derivative
extended with -k-) and that this proves that the Corded Ware culture
and the derived later Bell Beaker culture were IE speaking, since
they decorated their pots with rope (I'll use 'cord' for a single
strand, 'rope' for something twined from two or more cords), when I
remembered that Hermann Møller derives /duco/ and a 'rope' word
from /duo/ "two"


. He speculates that his *!-p- (*h2-p- ?) originally meant "pull in
two". Nono. Much simpler. It meant "pull (boat?) with a rope",
ie "tow", 'rope' coming from "fold double", or "twist, twine" (as the
two snakes do in the caduceus), as some of his Semitic examples mean.
But if this is true, we've established a link with the SE Asian
Corded ware culture, which Marc mentions in


And if this is the same root (as Møller maintains) as the one that
becomes IE *wegH'- (from the Austronesian for "big boat"), then that
boat would have been a double. Hm! Note also, with the same -gH-
extension German /zeug/, Dutch /tuig/ (/speeltuig/ > Engl toy);
original sense probably "tackle (and gear)".

One of the genetic links between Sundaland and Europa that Stephen
Oppenheimer (in "Eden in the East") mentions, connect Europe and the
NE Borneo region of Sabah. This is also where we find
the /cheghe/ "5" forms for standard /lima/.

Another IE word for "spin, twine" is *s-n-, as in Engl. sinew, Dan.
sno "twist, twine", German Schnur (as in 'Schnurkeramik'). But s-n-
is Egytian and Berber for "two"!


The plot thickens.