Re: [tied] Re: Pliny's "Guthalvs"

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 15882
Date: 2002-10-02

As far as I can see, the identification of the Massagetae and Thyssagetae with the Getae results from a misunderstanding. The suffix -ta (< *ta:) in a group of northern Iranian languages (including Sogdian and modern Ossetic and Yaghnobi) forms plural (historically collective) nouns, hence its frequent occurrence in tribal names (cf. Paralatae, Sarmatae). The common part in the two names above is not -getae but rather -sage-tae (*-sagI-ta) = the plural of *sagI < *sakah 'Saka'. The names are explained as "Great Sakas" and "Strong Sakas", respectively, in Iranian terms.
The name of the Jats (Hindi ja:t.) is usually etymologised as Middle Indo-Aryan *jat.t.a- < Old Indo-Aryan *jarta- (cf. Skt. jartika-, a tribal name), which is all that I can tell you about its supposed origin at the moment. English "aw/au" (pronounced [O:], of course) for Hindi <a:> was a common substitution in colonial times, as in "juggernaut" for <jaganna:tH>. The OED gives the alternative early spellings Jett, Jutt (17th c.) and Jaut (18th c.), but I've never come across variants with initial <g->. What's your source for them?
----- Original Message -----
From: ravichaudhary2000
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 11:17 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Pliny's "Guthalvs"

The classical writers refer to the Massagetae and Thyssagetae in The Jaxartes. Oxus areas, whom some writers identify with the Getae, and whom the Chinese sources term as Yueh Chi. The Chinese words are  translated as Gaut, ( a reference to De Groot, by  WW Tarn  or Ngwat, pronounced Gaut, or Jat.

I have thus seen various writers connect them to the Sakas, or Sacae, and the Getae of Thracia, and the Goths  and Guts, the Juts, the Jutes.

The Jats in India, are also known as Juts, Guts, Juton, Guton,

All this may very well be similar sounding words, but I am not a linguist, and would welcome some clarification.