Re: [tied] Re: *gwistis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Wordingham" <richard.wordingham@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:35 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: *gwistis


> The points have been made that
> (a) Latin 'digitus' did NOT syncopate digitus > *digtus >...
> (b) In the less-isolated parts of the empire, the 'g'
dropped, so the
> path went digitus > diitus >... We have not discussed what
happened
> to the vowels.
> (c) On the periphery, (incipient) palatalisation preserved
the
> consonant.
>
> On this basis, we expect Romanian to have had a form such as
'degetu'.
> It has been pointed out that there are forms with -ege-
replaced by
> -eje-, -ej- and -e$-. Assuming that they date from before
the final
> 'u' disappeared, we can see the following slurring pattern:
>
> degetu > dejetu > dejtu > de$tu
>
> with all four forms still around, as deget, dejet, dejt and
de$t. The
> phonetic change we see is:
> -ghit- > (Reorganise vowels) -ghet- > (Palatalise) -get- >
(soften
> further) -jet- > (syncope or apocope) > -jt- >
(simplify) -$t-

[Moeller]
Your rationament will be right if you will find still a hand
full of examples where "-ege-" went eje, ej, e$. Do you have
such?
Let me try your aptitude here. We have in romanian a word for
intelignet people, and this adjectiv is "de$tept"
so. this word "de$tept" is supposed to come from latin "
de-excitus"
Would you please fallow your ideea in this case too?
you have
digitus>deget>de$t
de-excitus>?>de$tept

I am just eyes, belive me..


>
> I had expected to find PIE gwistis > Albanian gisht. I
suppose it was
> too simple to be true. (The apparent resistance to
palatalisation had
> surprised me.) If, as George has just said, it too has
nothing to do
> with PIE *gwistis, e.g. Old Norse kvistr, this should
definitely go on
> the list of pseudo-cognates.

[Moeller]
George said? George quoted Russu. And the big Russu what did
he did in his "Languaeg of the Daco-Thracian"?
Let me explain you if you have not read it:
-overview about country, histroy and culture of the thracians
-overview about the material with he worked
-overview about people who did similar works about thracians
and of course the inevitably, his meaning about their work
-tried to find pie roots for the thracian glosses
-tried to find fonetic aspects but here I do not have the
space for showing "how" he did it
-a overview about last memories in the historic works about
thracians
-comparation of romanian with albanian.
You dont have to expect to find by russu a try for finding
rules for more words to see if there is a system, if there is
something which repeats itself, something which can be used as
a rule. No. Russu made just that:
an overview + a try to find some ethymologies for words about
we have no ideea what they means and what they meant. TO try
to find a PIE root about a word where you do not have no ideea
what this word could mean, it seems a very unproductive way..
but he did it..


> > [Moeller]
> > but Angelo in Italian, Giovani in Italian to, originale in
> > Italian, original in French, with a good preservation of
"g"..
> > well.. that is life..
>
> I am not sure what the <g> in Italian angelo has to do with
this
> discussion. What was being discussed was the disappearance
(not
> replacement) of /g/ between vowels.

[Moeller] indeed:-( sorry . I have lost the "between vowels"
from my consideration.
but "magarii " is between vowels I think, even if this is an
italian word.:))

> As I said in my first post, the
> 'g' in French <doigt> has *never* been pronounced. It was
inserted in
> the _spelling_ later, as were many superfluous and indeed
incorrect
> letters. Piotr has already mentioned the 's' in English
'island'. I
> could add the 'c' in 'scissors'. As to superfluous and once
dropped
> letters, English has the 'b' in 'debt' and the 'p' in
'receipt'.
>
> Incidentally, what's original about the 'g' in Giovanni?

[Moeller] giovano = lat. juvenis=young