Re: [tied] Re: Celery

From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 15458
Date: 2002-09-14

----- Original Message -----
From: "George" <gs001ns@...>
To: <>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 9:14 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: Celery

> >How is [ts] perceived by people who have [s] and [dz], but
not [ts]?
> >I suspect as [s]
> As by Turks. Speaking German as newbies, they say, e.g.,
> /svai/ instead of "zwei" /tsvai/ (two).

you have funny turkisch people there where you live , George.
I have some turkish people , they work in the depot of my
company and I hear them too. Unfortunately I dont hear them
saying "svai" but I do hear them saying "zvei" where "z" in
their pronounciation is "dz" or rom. "z", but something
milder, not so strong as rom. "z".

> >Just to confuse matters, on-line Pokorny gives a Thracian
> >as Diuzenus (Roman alphabet) [...] Diogenes, a compound of

> Or... unless it's an... exception. :) (Any rule could have
> How about these? Decebalus/Decibalus, Decenaeus. Why weren't
> Deseb-/Dezeb-, Desen-/Dezen-, Dizeb-/Dizen-?)

about Decebal : at Petrus patricius we find the form
"dexebalos o daxos" where "x" is the "h" from slavic
about deceneus: severalm formes: dicineus, dicineum, deceneus,
and at Issidor from Sevilla , Dikineos.

> BTW, di- > z, as in Derna > Dierna > Zern- (Tsern-) as well
> Sabadios > Sabaz-, belongs to changes that are late, i.e.
seen in the
> historical epoch. (again apud Russu, cf. supra)
> >Richard.
[Moeller] if thracian "de/di"> rom. ze/zi, then the phenomenom
was already closed as the romans camme to Balcans. No wonder
then, that the latin "de/di" did not went "ze/zi" anymore in
romanian.The fact is explained due the just 2-3 examples of
latin words where latin de/di is supposed to change in "ze/ziĀ§
in the actual romanian language .The impresionantely list of
words with "z" and specialy groups "ze/zi" in romanian which
are beside some "slavic" word, overproportional , words with
unknown. etymology, speaks for itself.