Re: [tied] Re: -ishte, -eshte

From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 15362
Date: 2002-09-10

----- Original Message -----
From: "tolgs001" <gs001ns@...>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:24 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: -ishte, -eshte

You must've been living in some splendid isolation
(& no TV, radio, movies, theater) before you moved to
Germany. :) Even in your own Muntenian "Heimat" is
/dã$kide/ popular.

[Moeller] i must have trouble with my ears in this case. In
muntenia in deschide is no "sh" . there is a clean "s" like in

>[Moeller] weit. You make a big confusion here. You try to put
>"schei"=slav in the form shtei.

And how mightily I can! :)

>Your assumption is wrong because "shtei" is not an evolution
>of "schei"

No assumption: it's even acknowledged by Rum.
scholars. (To me, $tei = $chei is natural, since
I myself know how these dialectal k' <-> k things
work, they are mine, I grew up with them.)

[Moeller] yeap. And what does mean "stei" in your
sub-dialectus? How does happen that even for this word, for
stei in your region you dont use shtei. You should do it after
your rule. Don't you?

>[Moeller] your supposition try to say that it was a time in
>romanian language where the conjugation was "tu esci", "el
>esce".And that make the latinism more harder as you tought it
>could be:-)))

That's not *my* assumption, that's how it has worked
(that means: it works even today -> just have a look
at those myriads of forms with -sc- turning -$t- according
to certain forms: plurals, flexions & the like).

[Moeller]hmmmm "s" becam "sh" before "t" just when "t"
fallowed by e and i. I cannot find a word now where st
fallowed by o, u, a got a sht in romanian Do you?

>[Moeller] But if you think that a native popualtion
>will think to take a word from genitive

No, populations always do that... instinctively, never
bothering that an Alex or me will one day scratch
our heads in disbelief. :-)

[Moeller] hmmm.. I try to make a connection. When you say in
joke using foreign word romanian you will use the romanian
rus. gavariti:govoresc, govoreshti, govoreshte, govorim,
govoriti, govoresc
germ. sprechen: sprehãnesc, sprehãneshti, sprehãneste,
shprehãnim, shprehâniti, shprehãnesc
eng: talk: tolkuiesc, tãlcuieshti and so on. ( strange in
romanian is a word tâlc=sense, meaning, supposed to come from
slav tlUkU)
It shows from these example that a population when "loan"
words adaptate these loans to its own way to speak. And in
this case I will say, if someone got latin or slavic words
"modified" them for his way to speak. But that will mean that
these sufixes are indigens.. or that they developed paralel
from PIE. Is there a ideea about?

>Even the word "greu"= hard is suppoesed to come from
>an hypothetical *grevis. The latin word was gravis.

What's your problem with that? In class. Lat. "grauis".
Not too remote our "greu". The other way around Lat.
"seu" - our "sau" ("or"). Why should this be a difficulty?
BTW: how do the Thracian or Dacian correspondents
of these simple words sound like (if they, IYO, aren't
Latin at all)?

[Moeller] I dont put any dacian words here. I just observe the
inconcordances . And the word grevis doesnt exist in latin. It
was "re-modeled" after levis. That is all. Is there for french
, spain, portugal the same grevis ?Or the "re-modelation" was
made just for romanian?