Re: [tied] why did romans and greeks have had the same gods?

It seems to me that in some cases the similarity between Greek and Roman gods can be caused by import in both pantheons from a third non-Indo-European source.

One of such examples can be the pair Herakles - Hercules.

Greek Herakles is obviously a deity of non-Indo-European origin. He must have been taken from Aegean substrate population (Pelasgians ?).

Roman Hercules is a development of Etruscan Hercle. On the other hand this Etruscan deity can't be deduced from Herakles as Hercle's story has some original traits without direct Greek correspondences.

In all probability there was a very ancient Near East deity whose developments were Etruscan Hercle, Greek Herakles, Phoenician Melkart (the King Kart?) and perhaps Sumerian Ningirsu (the Lord Girsu - a hero defeated a terrible lion and a 7-headed hydra).

It is interesting to compare Greek Hephaistos with Etruscan Velhans (then Roman Vulcanus) .

It is well known that the Middle Anatolian (Anatolian in geographical, not linguistical sense!) folks had iron technology much earlier than their neighbours. The term for iron in Hattic is hapalki or hawalki, and the particle ha- is easily lost when Hattic words are borrowed. Reflexes of this term are found in very many languages (from Georgian to Chinese).

Are such developments as

hapalki - Hephaistos

and

(ha)walki - Velhans

possible from the point of view of linguistics?

Alexander

----- Original Message -----

From: Piotr Gasiorowski

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 2:58 PM

Subject: Re: [tied] why did romans and greeks have had the same gods?

The Old Roman religion and mythology were strongly affected by Etruscan and Greek influences, especially after the semi-legendary establishment of the Capitoline triad (Jupiter, Juno and Minerva) and the purchase of the Sibylline Books from the Greek oracle at Cumae -- both attributed to the house of the Tarquins (in the 6th c. BC). The Etruscans themselves absorbed many traits of Greek culture (including religion), passing them on to their Italic neighbours and subjects.

Eventually, all the major Roman gods and goddesses were identified with the Greek ones (often changing their functions in the process, and becoming more anthropomorphic: Juno : Hera, Ma[vo]rs : Ares, Diana : Artemis), and new deities were introduced to fill any remaining gaps in the pantheon. Heroes such as Hercules, Castor and Pollux were imported too. However, the Romans retained a host of minor "specialist" divinities of native origin and pieces of old ritual even after their religion had been rather thouroughly Hellenised.

If you consider the etymologies of the oldest Roman theonyms, very few of them have Greek counterparts (Iuppiter : Zeus pater, Vesta : Hestia); moreover, despite the cognacy of their names they were not functionally equivalent in all their aspects. The Greeks and the Romans certainly didn't have "the same" gods from the beginning.

Piotr

----- Original Message -----
From: alexmoeller@...

To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:11 AM

Subject: [tied] why did romans and greeks have had the same gods?

why did romans and greeks have had the same gods?
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