O-: From: jdcroft [mailto:
jdcroft@...]
O-: Torsten wrote
O-: > Out of curiosity: Has anything of the previous languages (except
O-: > for Byzantine Greek, of course) survived in present-day Anatolian
O-: > Turkish (possibly in dialects)? Has anyone investigated that? Is
it
O-: > worth pursuing?
John adds:
O-: Until the rise of the Young Turks under Enver Pasha and
O-: their "Turkish only" linguistic policies there was a huge Greek
O-: speaking population in Anatolia. After World War I, with the rise
of
O-: Ataturk, these Greeks emigrated to Greece in a huge movement of
O-: refugees.
Yes, and a number were summarily killed in 1922. Others
however, found a way to survive and adapt. The language was outlawed,
but some speakers simply conformed. The Greek morphology and culture is
still obvious on the Aegean coast of modern Turkey. Phochaea has become
a Turkish retirement community with interesting archaeology near by, but
Ayvalik remains a Greek fishing village on the wrong side of the Aegean
standing at attention to the Turkish national anthem, while Bodrum has
even older links that are not: Persian. Once inland, all bets are off,
and each village can produce differences that are.. very interesting
:-). There are also broader regional differences in the population
all over the inland areas, which seem to track with the flow of history
on a total scale..not just Ottoman (or even Persian) consolidations
forward; with even pre-Persian influences thought possible by this
observer. Arab ["Arap"] presence is also obvious..but denied (or
called resilient Persian, or even mislabeled "Gypsy" if lower economic.
) as the displaced and disfavored interim masters before the Turk
conquest.
There are also pockets of much more eastern influence from a
later conquest sweep: Mongol, often ignored because the Turks tend to
gloss over that break in continuity by preferring to see the Mongol
intruders as simply later Turks. These regions still produce a popular
art that could sell as Chinese, and people who could walk unnoticed in
Korea: but speak the language of The Young Turks. (The popular, and
taught view: the Great Wall of China was built to keep "The Turks"
out..so they decided instead to take a piece of Rome. These folks
becoming The Turks of "Rum" in chipping off parts of the already once
removed Byzantine empire, still Rome to the new comers. Everyone else
was killed or expelled, and all survivors are true sons of Osman (by
claim).
I would caution Ed, John and others on relating these obvious
regional distinctions to (only) the more recent historical knowns in
layers just prior to the Turk intrusion. Some of the apparent
similarity to Greek DNA may also derive from shared North points moving
southward (IMO) and are not necessarily indicative of later west to east
colonization, and certainly would vary widely by region. The Greek
colonies and post Alexander Hellenization are population and political
factors impacting very differently by region. I think (cautiously :-)
that a careful regional survey would produce Lydian, Hittite and
Phrygian dividers in the West, and others in the east: and some later
overlays also obvious. There is little Persian pocketing under a
relatively uniform linguistic blanket, however (outside the broad
literature, art, architecture and cultural influences John references).
I would love to see those linguistic and DNA surveys done (as Ed and
Torsten hint) in Galatasaray (what I saw there changed my view of the
construction of national populations over time immensely, and not just
in Turkey, and admittedly influences my Danube views. :-)
O-: Regarding Greek influences on Turkish, I understand that the major
O-: difference between the Turkish of Turkey and the Turkish of
O-: Turkmenistan lies not in linguistic interference, not from Greek but
O-: rather by Persian. It ironic that the Ottoman Empire was one of a
O-: Greek speaking substrate, Turkish speaking soldiers, Arabic speaking
O-: religious culture and a Persian literature! The final language
could
O-: have almost gone in any direction.
I think some lexicon is older even than Persian. "Kappi" perhaps for
one (?) ..a settlement area of different (intrusive) people within a
named area, I think, originally, about the Aegean periphery (?) but now
just a subregion or community in usage surviving in modern Turkish.
There are many other words that changed with the Turk overlay, and then
again with Ataturk's alphabet early last century. (Ataturk ["The father
of the Turks"] was born 1881 in the Ottoman occupied Greek city of :
Salonica [Thessaloniki]. ) "Smyrna" is still there too..it is just
"Izmir" now. That is not a new name applied later, but the old carried
forward by folks who don't start place names with an "S" . The Greeks
are still there, they just have surnames translating as FirstTurk and
RealTurk now. :-)..but they are not alone among those
identifiable...and predating the Turk.
~ Rex