Re: [tied] Re: the New Age Irmin

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 13746
Date: 2002-05-19

Sorry, Steve, but the name is composed of readily recognisable Scandinavian elements occurring in different combinations in numerous names (and of course existing also as free lexemes), and there can really be no mistake about its etymology. Neither *air- nor *er- would have yielded anything remotely like ON <her-> (or <hær->, since we also have variant forms like <hærmo:dh>); this can _only_ derive from older *xar- with I-umlaut. If you propose a different etymology I must ask you to account for the form of the word. If you propose a borrowing, please specify a plausible scenario: the source language, the approximate date, and the further development of the loan (obviously direct loans from Ancient Greek into Viking Age Scandinavian are impossible without a time machine).
 
The meaning of Germanic *mo:da- is anything but narrow (which is not my fault), so the "original" semantics of Hermod could be anything from 'ésprit de corps' to 'military courage' or 'battle wrath'. The argument that the name is not suitable for a messenger rests on identifying him completely with this single function and on selecting just one possible meaning of the name, and then on insisiting that the two must match. Hermod's name may be older than his "mission in Hell". Odin himself had several bynames of the type Herjann, Herjaföðr, Herjatogi, Herteitr etc. The version of the Baldr story that has reached us was written by Snorri in 1200, and any parallels between Hermes and Hermod are possibly due to Snorri's erudition rather than being purely coincidental.
 
As for the 'army' word, PGmc. *xarjaz is a very securely established item (in this precise form). King Ine's Laws (57) define Old English <here> formally as a group of more than thirty-five armed men (that is, larger than a <hlo:ð> 'band' = from seven to thirty-five men and <ðe:ofas> '[a gang of] thieves' = fewer than seven), which of course does not amount to 'army' in the modern sense, either in terms of number or in terms of organisation, even if from the early Germanic point of view it was a "large" unit (hence the old title *xarja-tugo:n- 'commander, army-leader' > OHG herizogo, OE heretoga, ON hertogi, etc, translating Lat. dux). The word is not restricted to Germanic; its older form was *korjos (reflected also in Baltic and Celtic). Greek <harmos> < *arhmo- < *arsmo- is thought to be ultimately cognate to Eng. arm 'arm' and to Lat. arma 'tools, weapons' (and to many other things, the common denominator being the PIE root *h2arh1- 'fit together'), but it cannot be the source of *xarja- in Germanic.
 
Piotr
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: x99lynx@...
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2002 10:40 AM
Subject: [tied] Re: the New Age Irmin


PIOTR WROTE:
<<Not a borrowing. It's a native name: Hermóðr (cf. OE Heremo:d) < *xarja-mo:daz 'army-anger/courage'.>>

Hey, you forgot about 'glorious, shining and great'!

Actually, there are obviously better names for a messenger and I suspect that the coincidences are getting a little bit too much for credibility.

Wright's gives the Gothic words: <a:irino:n>, to be a messenger, <a:irus>, messenger.  Hermes of course is the basis of messenger words in Greek and there's no real reason to think that Hermudr and <airinon> are just more coincidences piling up to the ceiling.

That the army word is native Germanic might also raise a question.  The concept of a co-ordinated group fighting according to some order might suggest the real early meaning of the word was closer to the Greek <harm->, as in harmony or <harma>, horses joined in pulling a war chariot.  The idea of an army (as opposed to a uncoordinated mass of "angry" men) probably came north by way of Greeks, Romans or maybe Etruscans.  Arma virumque cano, and all.  Another interesting entry in Lidell-Scott: "harman: polemos [fighting] (Phryg.), EM145.42."  The ability to connect vastly different ideas like "courage", "anger" and "army" covers up a lot of real original meanings I suspect.

Also interesting is Wright connecting "aírzjan, to deceive, lead astray" with "OHG. irren, cp. OE. iersian, to be angry."  And "aírzeis, aj. astray, erring; aírzeis wisan or waír<thorn>an, to go astray, err, be deceived," with "OE. eorre, ierre, angry, OHG. irri." Here we might see Hermes as both deceiver and enticer of Christian Goths from
the way (see Martin of Braga).  Of course, the anger word makes no sense here except as evidence that the assumption that these are native words can be deceiving.