From: Piotr Gasiorowski
----- Original Message -----From: tgpedersenSent: Tuesday, May 07, 2002 12:53 PMSubject: [tied] Re: IRMIN>
> > > 60BCE They set up camp in Thuringia as *erman-e-tu:r >
> > (in my best Tauric, assuming this was an Iranic language) "Tu:r
> followers", which name, translated into Germanic, becomes <Tu:r-ing-
> --- In cybalist@......, "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@......> wrote:
> > And this *-tu:r- part appears as <-duri> (short <u>), <-doroi> in
> ancient sources. Some kind of folk etymology, I presume.
> > Piotr
> You got me intrigued there. Folk etymology from what to what?
--- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> Now let's be serious. Spellings like <hermunduri>, <hermondoroi>
point to Germanic *ermVn(a)-duro:z, the latter element, *dura-,
certainly with <d> and a short vowel, whatever it means.
> BTW, *ermVn- is not just a vague compound element whose meaning is
deduced from the context. It occurs in Old English as an unbound,
independently inflected adjective, in phrases like <ofer/geond
yrmenne grund> (<yrmen> is a spelling variant of <eormen> and -ne is
the acc.sg. ending), and <eormen-> is on several occasions glossed in
Latin, always as "immensus" or "permagnus".
What is a spelling variant? Is it a kind of folk etymology? ;-)
Iranic <érman-?-tú:r> ->
Pre-Proto-Germanic <érmVn-tú:r> ->
stop shift <érmVn-Tú:r> ->
stress shift <érmVn-Tu:r> ->
shortening of unstressed vowel <érmVn-Tur> ->
cf. the participle ending PIE -nt- > Germanic -nd-.
<eormen-> etc cannot be directly applied here. "The mighty Durs"
makes no sense. Nor, for that matter, Hermino(n)es "the Mighties". I
suspect those who glossed it in Latin have themselves deduced its
meaning from context, a meaning which had shifted since its first
occurrence in Germanic. Does your quote mean "over mighty ground"?