From: tgpedersen
Message: 13633
Date: 2002-05-06

--- In cybalist@..., "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:

> > No need, if you could just make up your mind about what you're
> arguing at the moment. It's difficult to discuss with several
> sketched and mutually exclusive ideas posted at the same time. So
> do you etymologise Arminius right now?
> >
> > Piotr
> My _personal_ (as opposed to on-cybalist) opinion is that if Snorri
> was right, that there happened a mix of Asir and Vanir in the upper
> layers of the Asir tribe, then that name could derive either from
> Iranic speakers (ie <aryaman>) or from some language spoken by the
> Vanir, which _might_ be Armenian for the reasons I mentioned
> Either way, _that_ putative tribe was it I was looking for in the
> immigration to Thuringia.
> But actually the question should be easy to settle, for the
> reason:
> As I mentioned several times before, Thuringia has a number of town
> names composed of a personal name + <-leben>; Denmark and Sweden
> a similar number of town names of personal names + <-lev> and
> <-löv>. That last morpheme stands for something (a piece of land)
> you 'leave' to someone for them to 'live' off. The personal names
> the town names in Thuringia have little overlap with the northern
> ones.
> Now, if these <-leben> places in Thuringia were given as possession
> to the first generation of Hermunduri invaders or colonists in
> Thuringia, those names should (might) reflect what language the
> Hermunduri spoke at the time of the invasion. So, Germanic or
> Iranian? Problem is, most of them seem to be rather short, so
> therefore probably hypochoristic (nick names).
> Torsten

According to Ferdu:si:(931-1026)'s Sâ:hna:me, "Book of Kings", the
legenday king Feri:du:n (Avestan <Thraetoana>) divided his world-
empire during his own life-time among his three sons: Salm, Tu:r and

Agustí Alemany:
Sources on the Alans, a Critical compilation:
... Nevertheless, this first appearance in the S^a:hna:me, backing
the assassins of I:rag^, already determines from the very start their
Turanian character within the epic...

According to the "History of the Armenians" by Movse:s Xorenac'i (5th
c CE) tells of "the incursion of the Alans among us and [their]
defeat, and Artas^e:s' alliance with them". Alemany dismisses the
idea that this actually could have taken place in Artas^e:s I's reign
(ca. 188 - 159 BCE) ("nor is there any sense in speaking of Alan
incursions ca 160 BCE"), with no further argument presented, as he
also dismisses a connection between *A:s and Aesir ("even less
[convincing] the relationship with the Aesir of the Nordic mythology
(maybe a popular etymology by Snorri Sturluson)", also without
further argument. The mind boggles at the the deviousness of Snorri
who read Armenian history to concoct his story.

Around 100 BCE the Alans defeated the Tauri on the Crimea, a people
of pirates, last remnants of the Cimmerians.

So, perhaps one can set up a chronology:

160 BCE War and subsequent alliance between the A:s and the Van

100 BCE For one Iranic-speaking (?) subtribe life at the Sea of Azov
becomes unpleasant.

60BCE They set up camp in Thuringia as *erman-e-tu:r > <Hermundur->
(in my best Tauric, assuming this was an Iranic language) "Tu:r
followers", which name, translated into Germanic, becomes <Tu:r-ing->.

0 BCE? They move on to Scandinavia

And BTW, if their leader's name was (derived from) <Wodan>, he might
have been the grandfather of Hengist and Horsa.

According to Snorri, Tor spent some time in Thrace with a king
Loricus. According to

<Loringia> is an alternative name for Thuringia.