Re: [tied] Re: Daci

From: george knysh
Message: 12743
Date: 2002-03-18

--- tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
But a general remark: It seems to me you [i.e. Piotr
Gonsiorowski GK] often use
> the argument that
> since we can't conclude on linguistic grounds that
> something has
> happened, then it would be unscientific to assume it
> did, and
> therefore it didn't happen, also given pertinent
> extra-linguistic
> evidence that it might have happened. Case in point:
> the possible
> identity of the Getae and the Goths. (Trying to
> represent your
> position:) If they spoke dissimilar languages we
> cannot entertain the
> possibility that they might have been the same
> people (wholy or
> partly) and therefore Jordanes is definitely wrong
> if he claims they
> were.

*****GK: Sounds as though someone is picking up that
ragged whip again and looking with interest at that
pile of old horse bones with an itch in the wrist...

The (mis)identification of Goths and Getae in
Jordanes/Cassiodorus stems from the authority of
Paulus Orosius (cf. Getica,44.) The work in question
{"Historiarum adversus paganos libri septem" completed
ca. 418) is unfortunately not available on line (to my
knowledge at least). But that is not the only massive
misidentification in the GETICA. Equally absurd is the
contention that the Goths and Scythians are one and
the same, and that consequently one may incorprate
into Gothic history whatever one finds convenient in
Roman and Greek authors concerning the Scythians of
yore. Pompeius Trogus is a good milk, as are others,
and we find Jordanes turning the Roman's account of an
ancient struggle between Scythians (in Trogus' sense)
and Egyptians, into a struggle betwen Goths and
Egyptians. The Amazons become Gothic women, and
Tomyris becomes a Gothic Queen... Priskos has limited
utility here, since his "Royal Scythian" Huns can't be
turned into Goths (:=))Jordanes does not give an
explicit authority for this second major
misidentification (Scythians=Goths), but any number of
late authors might have been responsible.
Reconstruction of genuine Gothic history in
Jordanes/Cassiodorus must begin by jettisoning these
ancient errors (Goths=Getae; Goths=Scythians) and rely
on those elements in his account which can be linked
to the true historical Goths, those mentioned for the
first time in the writings of 1rst c. AD authors.*****

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