On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 12:50:23 -0000, "tgpedersen"
<
tgpedersen@...> wrote:
>Now, *that* is interesting. Grimm I would result in a state as that
>in Thracian (and Georgiev's substrate language in Greece), cf posting
>11129.
Well, Hamp is partial to a link Germanic - "Pelasgian". The
"Germanic-Armenian shift" (*t -> *th, *d > *t, *dh > *d) must have
occurred over a largish central / north-south area of the PIE dialect
zone. The development *t > *th certainly includes Celtic [explaining
*p > *ph > *h > zero], and the Celtic merger *d/*dh may have gone
through a stage similar to that of Germanic (unaspirated *t and voiced
*d merging as *d ~ *D). Perhaps a trace of the old state of affairs is
left in the abnormal shape of the Celtic word for "tongue" (OIr.
teng). To the southwest of the Celtic-Germanic-"Pelasgian"-Armenian
area, another dialectal zone (Italic, Greek) underwent the "Classical
shift" (*t = *t, *d = *d, *dh > *th). To the east, Indo-Iranian,
Balto-Slavic [and Albanian] form the zone with *t, [and *th < *tH] *d,
*dh (the latter two merged in Iranian, Balto-Slavic and Albanian, but
the fact of Indo-Iranian unity and Winter's law in Balto-Slavic [*d
more voiced than *dh] prove that the difference was there earlier).
>Grimm II would then take us from Thracian to Proto-Germanic,
>or, should I say, from *Get-isk- to *Got-isk-
I take no responsibility for this.
>BTW, isn't the problem with the geat-s of Beowulf that in order for
>it to equate with *got-, it would have to unrounded, *before* the
>much later unrounding in English. In other words, that they seem to
>be Get-s?
<ge:at->, like <göt->, is from *gaut-. PGmc. *au always gives OE
<e:a>.
>As to the counterintuitiveness of Verner's law: It might be counter-
>English (and Friesian and North Germanic) but isn't it pro-Dutch (and
>German and South Countries) to voice s (and T and f) *before* the
>stressed syllable?
Not in my Dutch.
>What is the need for Grimm III?
To sow the seeds of the OHG shift. /p/, /t/ and /k/ (< PIE [], *d,
*g(W)) are [subphonemically] aspirated, certainly in initial position,
in all Germanic languages, except (standard) Dutch.
=======================
Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
mcv@...