[tied] Re: Early Roman Iron Age Burials in Denmark II

From: tgpedersen
Message: 11724
Date: 2001-12-07

--- In cybalist@..., "Alexander Stolbov" <astolbov@...> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...>
> To: <cybalist@...>
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 1:46 PM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Early Roman Iron Age Burials in Denmark II
>
>
> > Some early Scandinavian wheels:
> >
> > http://www.dkc.natmus.dk/kulturnet/tema/Relisolvogn2.htm
> > http://www.dkc.natmus.dk/kulturnet/tema/vogn.htm
> >
>
> Thanks for the links, Torsten.
Anytime.
> It was Kivik petroglyph what I meant first of all. BTW is it a
>unique
> picture or just the most famous among a series of analogous ones?
The latter. It is one of a series of stones from a large Bronze Age
mound at Kivik, Scania. Another one of the stones depicts (as I
recall) a cone surrounded by two ceremonial axes (which would make
you think of the labrys, the double axe). I had a long discussion
with Stephen Oppenheimer by mail of the significance of the cone,
which he connected to the "original mound" with which the world
started after a great flood, and I pointed out the similarity to the
traditional pointed "magic cap" (cf Walt Disney!) going back to the
original Magi, and also the "dunce cap" dumb children once were
forced to wear in Anglophonian schools, German children wear a
similar cap on their first day of school; the symbolism is
therefore: the child must forget the "old wisdom" connected with the
pointed cap (whatever that wisdom is).

>
> What are the objects on the lower picture of the same page?
>
translation of the last paragraph:
In Denmark we have not found completely preserved ceremonial wains
from the Bronze Age. From a sacrificial deposit in Egemosen on Fyn we
know however numerous bronze mountings [beslag] from such a wain. And
in a richly furnished grave in Lusehøj, likewise on Fyn, from around
800 BCE the deceased had been buried on wain minus wheels
[vognfading]. In neither of the two cases however had remains of the
wheels of the wain been preserved. Valuable harness equipment for the
horses, that pulled the ceremonial wains, i.a. round ornamental
plates of bronze and horse bits, have furthermore been found in
several deposit finds from the bronze age, i.a. in Lille Villingerød
Mose, Frederiksborg amt, Havemose, Københavns amt, Birkendegård og
Løvebjerggård, Holbæk amt, Holsteinsborg and Høve in Sorø amt. They
testify that horse-drawn wains was widely used in the religious
ceremonies particularly in Late Bronze Age.


> And one more question concerning the first picture (Relisolvogn2).
I saw
> this item in The National Museum but did not manage to decide
whether its
> style and features corresponds to contemporary local art and
technological
> traditions or it should be considered rather as an import. Your
(and other
> listmembers) opinion?
>
I think the jury is still out on that one. I haven't heard of a
satisfactory explanation for the style of it. Danish archaeology can
be rather self-centered, pointers to abroad are professionally a
priori considered tenuous (one shouldn't bother one's colleagues
abroad!), but, on the other hand, that goes both ways. Apart from the
Gundestrup cauldron, which everyone wants to claim for themselves,
and the bog men, Danish archaelogical finds (and there are some
interesting ones, e.g. a very Egyptian-looking Bronze Age folding
chair) are pretty much unknown abroad, partially because of the
language barrier. Archaelogists decide that won't be bothered
learning another language and so declare the country "uninteresting"
out of convenience.

>
> Alexander

Torsten