Re: [tied] Scythian tribal names

George, your postings show that you have a fresh and original point of view
on the earliest Rus events.
Could you please set forth your conception with key arguments. It is very
interesting indeed.

Alexander

----- Original Message -----
From: "george knysh" <gknysh@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 5:40 PM
Subject: RE: [tied] Scythian tribal names


>
> --- Sergejus Tarasovas <S.Tarasovas@...>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > I concluded that a case could be
> > made that the constant pairing of the two rulers of
> > Kyiv(Kiev)mentioned there as "boyars of Rurik", to
> > wit, Askold and Dyr (Askold i Dir -->
> > Askolt-i-Dir(t),
> > killed by Oleg on the Ugrian Hill, might represent
> > not
> > so much an earlier Norse presence, as a Khazar
> > imperial one.
> >
> > But both names have pluasible Scandinavian
> > etymologies (I remember me to
> > ask and Piotr to answer some time ago).
>
> *****GK: Yes of course they do. But the overall
> context of their recorded activities present
> condiderable anomalies which cannot be explained by
> Scandinavian references. The hermeneutics of the
> undated and of some of the very early dated segments
> of the Primary Chronicle are extremely difficult.
> Suffice to say e.g. that the well-known "Oleg"
> (conventionally assigned dates of 879-912) is actually
> a conflation of at least three "Helgis", one of whom
> was active ca. 860 [the "expedition against
> Constantinople" of 907 is a misdated mention of the
> famous assault of June 860], another at the beginning
> of the 10th century [when Scandinavian finds truly
> become noticeable in the Middle Dnipro region: prior
> to this they are sporadic and largely undetectable],
> and yet another in 943 A.D.[recent Khazarian finds:
> cf. Golb/Pritsak 1982 have confirmed that the story of
> this last "Oleg" was used in the Primary Chronicle
> with respect to our "traditional Oleg"]. The "Askold i
> Dir" stories fall into the same category of
> problematic sources. My reconstruction is as tentative
> as any other. But it's the one that (so far at any
> rate)leaves the least amount of dangling evidence
> unaccounted for. Including the incorporation of older
> motifs into Scandinavian "songs", eventually their
> Slavic versions, eventually their utilization by
> Nestor and successors.******
>
>
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