--- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., george knysh <gknysh@...> wrote:
> >
> > --- tgpedersen@... wrote:
> > I said the person
> > > "Odin" was named after
> > > the divinity Odin, who was known long before.
> >
> > *****GK: Here is a passage from the Heimskringla:
> >
> > "8. ODIN'S LAWGIVING.
> >
> > Odin established the same law in his land that had
> > been in force
> > in Asaland. Thus he established by law that all dead
> > men should
> > be burned, and their belongings laid with them upon
> > the pile, and
> > the ashes be cast into the sea or buried in the
> > earth."
> >
> > The universal burial rite east of the Don in the time
> > of Mithradates (no exception) was INHUMATION. How does
> > your theory about "Odin" explain the above citation,
> > viz., the establishment of CREMATION "by law" and "the
> > same law... that had been in force in Asaland".*****
> >
> >
> Yes, I've thought about that myself. It doesn't look good, does it?
> I'll go check on what they actually did here then.
>
> Torsten
Snorri:
Odin gave laws in his land; the same as before held among the Aesir.
Among other things he made it a law that all dead men should be
burned, and everything they owned, carried to the pyre with them. He
said that every man should come to Valhal with the same riches as he
had had with him on the pyre; what he had buried in the ground
himself he would also own. Ships should be put to sea or buried in
the ground. In memory of great men people should raise a mound, and
after all men who had had courage, a stone should be set; this custom
lasted for a long time. Before the winter there should be made
sacrifices for a good year, midwinter for good harvest, and the third
sacrifice should be in the summer, that was the victory sacrifice. In
all of Svíthjódh they paid Odin taxes, a penny for each nose, and he
should defend the land for them against war and sacrifice for them
for a good year.
..
Odin died a natural death in Svithjod, but as death approached, he
had himself marked with the point of a spear, and said that all men
who had died by weapons would belong to him; he said he would go to
Godhheim and receive his friends there. Now the Swedes believed that
he had come to the old Asgard and would live there forever. Then they
began again with faith and prayer to Odin. Often the Swedes believed
that he appeared to them before great battles, some he gave victory,
others he asked home to himself. They felt that was good conditions,
both one and the other. Odin was cremated when he died, the pyre was
great and magnificent. That was their belief, that the higher the
smoke rose into the air, the higher place he received in heaven, he
was cremated, and he was the richer, the more property burned with
him.
[BTW the richest finds of Early Roman Iron Age weapons and gold on
Fyn are in Gudme on the east coast].
Politikens Arkæologi Leksikon, 1985
Jørgen Jensen:
Gravskik [Burial customs]
Førromersk jernalder [Pre-Roman {Celtic} Iron Age (500 - 0 BCE)]
Den eneste benyttede gravform i førromersk jernalder er brandgraven.
Ved brandgravsskikken brændes den døde på et ligbål før
gravlæggelsen...
[The only type of burial used in pre-Roman Iron Age is the cremation
grave. In cremation the deceased is burned on a funeral pyre before
burial...]
Romersk jernalder [Roman Iron Age (0-400 CE)]
Med ældre romersk jernalder kommer de første jordfæstegrave, dvs.
gravlæggelse af ubrændt skelet. Men stadig benyttes gennem hele
romersk jernalder brandgravsskikken, såvel i form af urnegrav,
urnebrandgrube dom brandplet. Forholdet mellem de to gravformer
varierer efter tid og landskab.
...
I yngre romersk jernalder anvendes stadig både brandgrav og
jordfæstegrav, men med en tendens mod overvægt af jordfæste i de
fundrigere egne af landet, især Sjælland og Bornholm.
[With Early Roman Iron age come the first inhumation graves, ie.
burial of the unburned skeleton. But still through the whole period
cremation burial is used, as well in the shape of urn grave, urn fire
grave as cremation spot(?). The relation between the two grave forms
varies with time and region.
...
in Late Roman Iron Age cremation and inhumation are still both used;
but with a tendency towards dominance of inhumation in the regions
rich in finds in the country, especially Sjælland and Bornholm.]
...
Which means that the archaeological facts east of the Don and in
Denmark match nicely with an "Odin"-invasion. Only Snorri says the
opposite; if only he could have kept his mouth shut (but only on this
point)!
Here is a rather lame attempt at an explanation:
The invading Odin-people inhumated, and the aboriginals kept
cremating. After some time inhumation became the status type of
burial and the invading elite decreed that only they could be
inhumated, the aboriginals should cremate (note that only "great men"
should have mounds raised after them). Thus "everybody" should
cremate. The Aboriginals don't like that. After the Heruli were
thrown out, the aboriginals continued using the status-rich
inhumation. They still remember that "Odin" decreed they should
cremate (but have conveniently forgotten it was originally their own
custom). Snorri tries to make sense of this decree and changes Odin's
burial to cremation.
This might work. Sort of.
But how did the Vanir (if they were indeed the Colchideans) dispose
of their dead?
Torsten