Re: Boiotia < *bhoi- ?

--- In cybalist@..., "Christopher Gwinn" <sonno3@...> wrote:

>
> > > More ridiculousness.
> >
> > It's nice to be important, but it's also important to be nice.
>
>
> As they say, If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen.
>

Oh, I didn't mean to imply that I cannot take it. Having read some of
the flames Torsten gets for his 'Odin of Troy' threads, I fully
expected at least one of the big fish in this little pond to bite me,
being the non-linguist bait that I am ;-).

>
> > Bo Find: Ireland. `White Cow'.
>
> I understand a good bit of Old Irish, so I already know this.
>
> > She came from the western sea to Ireland and gave birth to cattle
> > for the people, then she disappeared.
>
> Source?
>

Don't have it. It seems to be similar to one of the British goddesses
who did the same thing there (forget her name), except that she gave
birth to cows and pigs and everything else.

>
>
> I know the tale of Culhwwch quite well, no need to summarize it for
> me. All I asked was which names you felt were similar. All that you
> can come up with is Culhwch's grandfather (not father) Celydon

(from

> Brittonic *Caledonos "A Caledonian")
>
>
> If you know that the similarity is superficial, why do you bother
> with this theory?
>

Hypothesis, as I initially stated.

> > the name of ancient Scotland (see Note 2). As will be shown
> elsewhere, the most likely
> > explanation for this shared myth came to Greece in late
> prehistoric
> > times with early Celtic colonists from central Europe.
>
> LOL. Hardly the most likely explanation!
>

If you have a better one, please post it. As for me, I still like the
Bryges/Boiotians = Brigantes/Boii hypothesis. It could also explain
the some other peculiar parallels between Greek and Celtic
mythologies, including, IMO, Artemis=Arti and Brigit=Athena (Breo
Saighead and Pallas Athena). I also suspect that Apollo was
ultimately from central Europe, including the homeland of the
earliest Celts.

>
> > Note 1: Actually, Culwhch's name is interpreted as meaning "pig-
> sty"
> > after his mother was scared by pigs and this induced his birth.
>
> Yeah, and that is a folk-etymology. Eric Hamp has demonstrated that
> Cul- actually comes from an Old Western Indo European root (perhaps
> ultimately a pre-IE substrate root) meaning "pig" (and not "sty").
>

I've read this "pig-sty" etymology so many times it seemed factual.
Clearing up these kinds of false information found in about every
book you read is why I come to this board. Actually, I was hoping for
a translation from "boar", not pig.

>
> > Note 2: These names also may be linked to the ancient name for
> > Scotland, Caledonia, the eponymous tribe of which may have been
> > named for by a pan-IE goddess found in Scotch and Irish myth as
> > Cailleach (and modern Kelly), Manx as Caillach, and in India as
> > Kali. Gender- and Gaulish-specific, their name recalls the pan-
> > Gallic god Caletos (equated by the Romans with Mercury) and
> > several place names in the Gallic world. (Yeah, I know, "more
> > ridiculousness")
>
> Well, the word that I would use now is ignorance.

OUCHIE!

> 1. Caledonia is most likely based on the nominative singular n-stem
> *Caledu (genitive *Caledonos), where the -u is from a PIE -On.
>
> 2. Cailleach is the result of an early Latin loan (borrowed

sometime

> between 1st-5 centuries AD). Old Irish Caillech means "veiled
> one/nun", from Irish caille "veil", ultimately borrowed from Latin
> pallium "cloak" (commonly worn by women). It has no relation to
> Sanskrit Kali whatsoever.
>

Thanks for the explanations. I always thought the Skt Kali connection
sounded like bunk, too. "Veiled One" sounds like a fate goddess? This
is what I suspected from the Irish triad of Caillech Bolus, Cailleach
Beara and Cailleach Corca Duibhne. What are the meanings of these
names?

> 3. Unless you have access to sources that I don't, there is no
> mention of a god Caletos in any single known inscription. You are
> thinking of the god Mercurius Uassocaletos "The Hard/Tough Vassal"

Dang. I guess I was trying to remember Calaedicus, the Gaulish god
linked to Silvanus as Silvanus Calaedicus. I believe I found this in
one of the books on Celts by Makillop or Green?

>
> > Note 3: Meleager and Oeneus have name cognates with the Arthurian
> > characters known variously as Meleagant, Meleagaunce, or Melwas;
> and
> > Owain, though their characters don't suggest a connection.
>
> Uhh...neither are mentioned in Culhwch, in case you didn't realize
> it. Meleagant was a name invented by the French author Chretien de
> Troyes - he meant to write Melwas, but was perhaps influenced by
> Meleagar as he was a bit of a classical scholar in his day.
>
> As a side note, Owein (Old Welsh Eugain) comes from a Brittonic
> *Auiganios "Born Auspicious/Favorable" and Melwas from a Brittonic
> Maglouassos "Prince-vassal".
>

Finding out these facts is why I come here. Thanks.

Your suffering fool,

cas