--- Sergejus Tarasovas <
S.Tarasovas@...>
wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., george knysh <gknysh@...>
> wrote:
>
> > *****GK: Some follow-ups on this. (1)I remember
> that
> > there are two or three borrowings from Slavic in
> > Gothic. Are there any attested borrowings from
> Baltic?
>
> (ST) Balto-Scandinavian and Balto-Gothic contacts
are
> indisputable, at
> least you seem to be the first to doubt.
****GK: You've misunderstood me Sergejus. I don't
doubt this. I asked specifically about attested
borrowings from Baltic into Gothic.*****
>(ST) As for the borowings into Gothic, I'm not aware
of
> them, but nearly
> the only our source of Gothic is some biblical
> fragments, and we
> can't state there have been no of them for sure.
****GK: Unfortunately we can only go by the extant
evidence. These "fragments" are faily substantial.****
> (ST)By the way, what Slavisms in Gothic do you
mean?
*****GK: Until yesterday I was actually only aware of
one: the Gothic word for "dance" or "to dance" (I
don't have my notes at hand so forgive me the
barbarism: I remember it as "PLINSJANS" or something
close to this.) As I surfed through the messages on a
Gothic list I encountered a claim that there were
actually two more borrowings from Slavic (I think one
pertains to "cloth") but didn't jot them down since I
intended to return to this archive soon.*****
>
> > (2)This "gold-mining" would be somewhere to the
> west
> > of the enumeration, since Ves' Merya Mordva point
> to
> > areas west to east and "inauxis" precedes this.
> Any
> > such area known in the nearer Balticum?
>
> (ST)First of all, this direction is yet to be
proven.
****GK: Actually quite a lot remains to be proved. But
the sequence Ves'-Merya-Mordva is west to (southeast)
much as the Volga path of the later Scandinavian
merchants and raiders.*****
> (ST)And what lies to
> the west of VesI in your opinion? Looks like the
> Gulf of Finland :)
*****GK: Well now I place the Ves' in the Beloozero
area. So if you look west therefrom there's quite a
bit of territory available before you reach the Gulf
of Finland. There's the lands around lakes Onega and
those east of lake Ladoga. I believe the Finnish group
in the area of the later Novgorod Slavs was called
Vod'. There were other groups as well (Izhora? Unless
that's another name for Vod'as some historians
believe). Towards the northwest from the Ves' you came
upon the Karelians(:=))*****
(ST) Again, the historical Baltic territory can be
> outlined as Central
> Estonia - the Upper Volga - Oka basin- the upper
> reaches of Seim -
> Kiev - Bug - Vistula, its north-eastern part not
> being far from
> Vepses - Mari - Mordovians territory.
*****GK: I think that we should try to focus on what
might have been the situation in the mid 4th c. AD.
The Proto-Balts were both gaining and losing ground at
that time. In the south they were retreating before
the Slavic expansion. But in the north they had just
made some gains at the expense of the Ugro-Finns,
especially the Galindian push into the Moscow river
basin. At any rate the various Proto-Baltic groups
still possessed much more territory in the time of
Hermanaric than do the Balts of today. One thing I've
always been curious about. Do the Balts of today have
a special (Baltic) name for the Dnipro/Dnepr?*****
(ST)In turn, a
> question to an
> archeologist: is (large-scale) gold-mining
> registered in that
> territory in the beginning of the first millenium?
>
> Sergei
>
>
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