Re: Boiotia < *bhoi- ?

--- In cybalist@..., "Dr. Antonio Sciarretta" <sciarretta@...>
wrote:

> At 13:25 14.11.2001 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >I read Georgiev some years back. Well argued.
> >You find -ind, -und, -s in Danish pre-Germanic island names similar
> >to the -inthos, -unthos, -ssos place names of Georgiev's substratum
> >of Greek, see
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/5219
>
> The "Pelasgian" -inthos, -unthos have different origins (part of a

name's

> root, derivative *-to- after a n-stem, suffix *-Nto-, etc.), but

however

> derive from a "Pelasgian" phonetic feature *t > th.
> If I'm correct, there is not yet an IE language in which *t > d

(and *p >

> b, *k > g).
> So, if your toponymic connection is right, this would be a

distinguishing

> feature of this unknown "Pre-Germanic" language.
> Not only for Pelasgian, it happened that strange toponyms were

explained by

> postulating an unknown IE language.
> Apart from "Alteuropaeisch", it is the case of the language that

gave Aetna

> mons (the volcano in Sicily), from the same root as Gk. aitho 'to

burn' <

> IE *aidh-, and also the personal name Rutilius, lat. ruber < *rudh-

ro- < IE

> *reudh- 'red'. They are explained by several italian scholars as a
> "latino-siculoid" language in which IE *dh > t, as probably in the
> Anatolian and Tocharic languages.
>
> >Interestingly, *bh, *dh, *gh > b, d, g and *p, *t, *k > ph, th, kh
> >would fit well with a pre-proto-Germanic-like language in

Scandinavia.

> >Perhaps Georgiev's substratum language was spoken in Denmark too

once?

>
> This seems is in contrast with what you sentenced before.

You're right, I wasn't being careful. I was thinking PIE *-ndh- >
Greek -nth- , Germanic -nd-. But we were talking about Pelasgian. But
still, the names are there and they puzzle me. The only stem I can
recognize before -(u)nd- is *Burg- in Burgundærholm (today Bornholm).
and that is a Wanderwort.

>Which is the
> (toponymic, I suppose) material that could lead to such phonetic

features ?

>
> Antonio Sciarretta

As for the toponymic material, follow the link to the cybalist
posting above. They are all island names, agreed by consensus in
place name research to pre-Germanic, possibly pre-IE (ie off limits
to reconstruction attempts, most are single-syllable and enigmatic).

Torsten