Re: [tied] The Penultimate Accent Rule

On Sat, 03 Nov 2001 01:58:29, "Glen Gordon" <glengordon01@...>
wrote:

>>So the irregularity was just created recently out of nothing?
>
>The irregularity of *pxte:r and *maxte:r was not created out of
>nothing. It was created by analogy.

No. Analogy *eliminates* irregularities.

>These words are not isolates.
>They are part of a larger system of kinship terminology. I'm
>stating that *pxte:r, being derived from *pax- "feed, nourish"...

An old story, which I don't believe.

>As *pxte:r replaced whatever word came before it
>for "father", it was apparently misanalysed as being a combination
>of a nursery term for father, perhaps **(a)pa-, plus some strange
>ending *-xte:r. Hence, by simple analogy...
>
> MidIE Late IE
> *ame **(a)ma- + *xte:r => *maxte:r
> *beraxWe **bhrax- + *xte:r => *bhraxte:r
> *deuk:e **dhug- + *xte:r => *dhugxte:r

You forgot to explain the accent, which is all I wanted know.
It's ph2tér-, máh2ter-, bhráh2ter- and dhughh2tér-. Why?

>>Let me see if I have this straight: *k^wó:n dropped a final vowel,
>>*h3ówei didn't. But why? If you don't give the why, nothing is
>>explained!
>
>I clearly gave the explanation: The careful replacement of final
>vowels efficiently regularizes the otherwise irregular accent
>system of IndoEuropean.

That doesn't explain anything. Which vowels dropped and which didn't?

>Don't forget the accent differences
>between singular and plural in nonthematic verbs as well...
>Without the PA rule, the odd placement of accent is entirely
>inexplicable:
>
> *ésti/*?sónti < MIE *es/*esáne

I think *h1sénti is more correct. Yes, we all know that the accent
shifted in the sg. vs. pl. of the verb, as it did in the rect./obl. of
the noun, and that it looks like it's basically a syllable thing (CéCr
~ CCRós, h1és-m ~ h1s-mé). But it's much more complicated than your
"penultimate accent rule". If you've ever wondered why the standard
handbooks don't carry it, it's because it's just not good enough. For
one thing, by your "final vowel" rule, all IE suffixes should be split
in two (e.g. the suffix *-men, as in dáimo:n and the suffix *-mene, as
in poimé:n), without any difference in meaning between them.