I wrote:
pit comb culture (thought by many to correlate initially to all or
most Uralic branches) them moved south and overlapped the
northeastern
range of Tripolye-Cucuteni roughly around 5000BC. (See Dolukhanov
(1996)).
george knysh <gknysh@...> replied:
> *****GK: Don't know if this will affect your point,
> but Dolukhanov's map (p. 77) is not correct.
> The Pit-comb culture never reached the Dnipro [only got as
> far as Chernihiv on the Desna r.]and contacted
> Trypilia very briefly, in the last phase of the
> latter, ca. 3000 BC, when the TRYP Lukashivka
> settlements appeared east of the river.
Well, it may be that Dolukhanov's map reflects distribution and not
settlement. But, perhaps more importantly, forms of combed and
stroked pottery does appear in early Tripolye-Cucuteni. Once again,
the origins of the initial northern use of ceramics about 5000BC
cannot really be assigned to any point but the Danube -- unless of
course the development was completely independent and just
coincidentially happened at the same time that the agricultural
"package" was also moving north. The effect of such contact would
have been far greater than contact between neighboring foragers (D-D
were certainly not herders or any other kind of farmers at the time.
The evidence for p-Uralics riding reindeer is probably better than
anyone in the south riding wild horses.)
george knysh <gknysh@...> replied:
<<3200BC,...Pit comb was then in full retreat before Yamna pressure.>>
Or, in the alternative, pit-comb was becoming Yamna, or a part of it
-- if in fact Yamna can be called a coherent culture at that point.
george knysh <gknysh@...> also replied:
> Between 5000 BC and 3000 BC Pit-comb had very close contacts
> with Dnipro-Donetz, and then with Serednyj Stih, none
> with Trypilia (at least no evidence of such has
> survived).
But at 5000BC, what evidence is there of D-D's effect on Pit-Comb
cultures (or vice-versa). Did D-D adopt pit-comb pottery? Starting
around 5000BC the most significant effect on Pit-Comb and D-D coming
from the South and West is manifest. A look at Zvebilil's map of the
eastward extent of Linear's settlements strongly suggests that what
truly had an effect on almost indistinguishable foraging communities
around that time was neolithicization. Because I think it's probable
that IE languages spread along with new food producing and processing
technology, ceramics, domestication, trade and the linguistic needs
of the marketplace, it's the life-changing, culture-changing impact
of
the contact - not mere contact - that would have any weight and
justify mentioning these things in this forum.
Regards, Steve Long