Re: Odin the Immigrant?

--- In cybalist@..., "João S. Lopes Filho" <jodan99@...> wrote:

> The relation of Jupiter-Mars-Quirinus to Odin-Thor-Freyr was

intensely

> studied by Georges Dumezil.
> The Jurist Sovereign lost his hands (Tyr, Nuada, Mucius Scaevola),

while the

> Terrible Sovereign lost one of his eyes (Odinn , Lugh, Horatius

Cocles).

> Mucius and Cocles were characters in the war between Rome and

Etruria.

> Mucius burn his hand himself to swear (falsely) that Romans will

not attack

> (cf. Tyr and Fenrir). Cocles, an one-eyed warrior, stopped the

Etruscan army

> on a bridge.
>
> I think this could be an explanation of evolution of Germanic

patheon

>
> Dyeus P@... > *Tiuz (Sky Father) - all-father (Latin Jupiter,

Greek Zeus,

> Indian Dyauh-Kas^yapa, Irish Dagde Ollathair)
> ? > *Saxsanautaz (Jurist Sovereign) - lawgiver god (Latin Dius

Fidius -

> Jupiter's epithet-, Indian Mitra, Irish Nuada)
> Wa:tNnos > *Wo:th@... (Terrible Sovereign) - magic god (Latin

Jupiter

> Stator, Indian Varuna)
> Tn@... > *Thunraz (Storm-God) - king of gods, storm god (Latin

Jupiter

> Tonans, Indian Indra)
> We:yus > ? (Wind-God) - strong, huge, violent god (Greek Poseidon,

Indian

> Va:yu)




> Tiuz - father of Saxsanautaz, Wo:th@..., Thunraz and Wind-god
>
> -------------------------------
> Tiuz was merged to Saxsanautaz. (Perhaps Tyr < *Ti:waz < *Deiwos).

Fusion of

> Sky-God and Jurist god is also possible in Lithuanian Deivas. If

Tyr,Tiu <

> *Ti:waz instead of Tiuz, we can simply assume that Wothnaz aborsbed

*Tiuz,

> and that *Saxsanautaz became *Ti:waz.
>
> Wo:th@... absorbed the all-father role of Tiuz and royal role of

Thun@...

> (allfather + magic + king)
> Thunraz was identified to Wind-God, but kept the atmospheric

features and

> the name of IE *Tn@... (strength + storm)
>
> Wo:thnaz - father of Tiuz-Saxsanautaz and Thunraz

Very interesting! I think Odin and Dagda must be related. Besides
from the all-father epithet, Dagda also has a reputation as a
magician, wields a spear, and is known for his musical prowess(Which
I associate with Odin's affinity for poetry).

What I think is interesting is Dagda also is associated with corn and
milk. This connection to corn, and cattle(via milk), makes him a
deity of agriculture, fertility, cattle, music, and magic. I would
think he would fit in the terrible soveirgn magic deity you
mentioned.
These attributes would also fit Hermes(Especially the older bearded
phallic Hermes) or maybe Kronos. He is the father of the thunder god,
after all. I'm still thinking about your other ideas.

Cort Williams

> > --- In cybalist@..., "William P. Reaves" <beowulf@...> wrote:
> >
> > > The case for Tyr as the Dyuas Pater of the Germanic tribes is

based

> > on
> > > nothing more than etymology of the name. And the theory that the
> > Germans had
> > > an earlier god named *Tiu which was displaced by Odin is
> > unfortunately still
> > > current in many scholarly books.
> > >
> > > I tend to believe that if the Germanics had a god named *Tiu it

was

> > merely
> > > Odin himself under an earlier name, rather than the god Tyr who

was

> > > displaced by the migrant Odin.
> >
> >
> > Tyr is interesting, I want to learn more about him. I know

Tuesday is

> > named after Tyr. In Italian, Tuesday is Martedi.
> > I also know one story about him: The gods wanted to bind the

Fenris

> > wolf, and finally made a chain strong enogh to hold him. They
> > couldn't think of a way to catch him, though, so they decided

instead

> > to trick him. They told the wolf they only wanted to test the
> > strength of the chain, and they would let him go after that. As

proof

> > of their sincerity, Tyr put his right hand in the wolf's mouth.

The

> > gods broke their word, and Tyr lost a hand.
> > This seems similar to Odin sacrificing his eye for knowledge.

Odin

> > gives up one eye to know or see more, Tyr gives up his hand to

make

> > his word binding. I've read about a pricniple triad of Teutonic
> > deities: Odin, Thor, and Tyr. Maybe this corresponds with the old
> > Roman triad Quirinus, Jupiter, Mars? I'm still working on that

idea.

> >
> > Cort Williams
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> >
> >