Re: [tied] Re: Non-IE elements in IE languages

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 10404
Date: 2001-10-18

My preferred date for the entry of the Proto-Greeks into the Balkans (maybe not yet into Greece proper) is something shortly after 2600 BC, about the same time when Proto-Indo-Iranian began its independent evolution. Some sort of sociopolitical upheaval seems to have been taking place in the steppes at that time, starting a chain of migrations round the Black Sea.
----- Original Message -----
From: markodegard@...
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2001 5:45 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Non-IE elements in IE languages

--- In cybalist@......, "S.Kalyanaraman" <kalyan97@......> wrote:
I wrote:
>>The possibility that  Greek has been in Greece since
>>about 3000 BCE is actually possible to believe. This
>>would make it quite nearly autochthonous, in that
>>Greece and Thrace were essentially depopulated in the
>>centuries before this date. The Mycenaean warrior elites,
>>then, would be intrusive non-Greek (but likely
>>IE-speaking) elements, one which was quickly assimilated
>>into Greek.
> In this scenario, Piotr's chronology for dating PIE may have to be
> revised?

I will not speak for Piotr, but I don't think so. My own inclination
has been to argue for a 'shallow' date for the breakup of
post-Anatolic IE, tho' everyone else is arguing for something much
deeper -- and they are all much better qualified to argue the

The whole issue of when Greek entered Greece is hotly debated. About
the only thing agreed upon is that it was there at least by 1900 BCE.
The Greek question is wrapped up with the Armenian and Indo-Iranian
questions (the e-augment isogloss). Greek (or pre-Greek) would have to
have separated before satemization. Piotr's dates are not impossible
for an early entry of Greek into Greece.

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