From: george knysh
Message: 10350
Date: 2001-10-17
> I do not recall any aggressive usage of chur in*****GK: Looks like its those darn Ukrainians again
> Russian.
> chur men'a = choose me (when something beneficial is*****GK: This last is exactly the same in Ukr. as
> expected)
> chur ya = let it be me, I want to do this (in same
> circumstances)
> chur ne men'a = choose me (if I want to avoid
> something)
> churat's'a = to avoid, to dislike
>****GK: That sounds plausible also. Probably related
> Meaning "forefarther" doesn't exclude aggression
> though, e.g. spirits can
> be called against others.
>
> PEK is also can be of Slavic origin (cf. peklo)
>*****GK: Incl. the expression "tsur tobi pek"
> But what professional linguists say?
>__________________________________________________
> Andrei
>
>
> At 10/17/2001 06:05 AM -0700, george knysh wrote:
>
> >--- Andrei Markine <andrey@...> wrote:
> > > At 10/17/2001 01:20 AM -0700, you wrote:
> > > >*****GK: What about a simpler route:
> > > >2. This "cry" is maintained even as the other
> > > language
> > > >shifts occur.[analogy: the mysterious "tsur
> (tobi)
> > > >pek" expression in Ukr. I don't know if it
> exists
> > > in
> > > >other Slavic languages. It may. You tell me]
> > >
> > >
> > > Is this misterious "tsur" related to Russian
> "chur"
> > > (when children, we used
> > > exclamations "chur men'a" "chur ne men'a"). I
> saw it
> > > interpreted as
> > > evocation of spirit of forefathers for
> assistance or
> > > protection (cf.
> > > prashchur).
> >****GK: As a non-linguist I feel rather awkward at
> >tackling this issue. What you say sounds highly
> >plausible. Is Russian "chur" and Ukrainian "tsur"
> used
> >in a kind of aggressive way against one's
> >interlocutor? It seems to be so in Ukr. (like "may
> >TSUR (CHUR?) come and do nasty things to you"). I
> had
> >noted this a long time ago because of some
> perceived
> >and perhaps totally incorrect and superficial
> >affinities to Turkic (with its CHUR/TSUR and
> PEK(=BEG)
> >and was toying with possible links to the "Khazar
> >times of trouble" as described in the undated
> portion
> >of the Primary Chronicle (where their toughness was
> >compared to that of the Egyptian-Hebrew
> relationship
> >before the advent of Moses the Liberator.) But fear
> of
> >being completely off base about some mythical
> >terrorizing TSUR-BEG turned into a frightening
> figure
> >for children made me pause. What do you
> think?******
> > >
> > > Andrei
> > >
> >
> >
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>