Re: [tied] Re: Troy, Rasna and Turan

Cort:

>Add Pelasgian Eurynome to the list of primordial creation deities.
>I like the story where Eurynome's male serpent consort Ophion tries
>to usurp her power, so she bruises his head with her heel(That sounds
>familiar...) and kicks out his teeth. There's a goddess who doesn't
>take any flak!

Yeah, I'll agree, Eurynome is probably also related. The serpents
are nothing more than "water" symbolism. The waves are like serpents
afterall. She appears to have stirred up the waters (aka "kicking
the serpents in the head") to start the whole creation process.

>I can definetly go along with the world tree angle-Maybe the goddess
>holding a serpent in each arm is similar to the twin serpents coiled
>around the world tree and caduceus.

Yeah, again, the serpents are the waters. You never see the serpents
hanging from the _tops_ of the trees, do ya? Of course not, they're
always down below where the water is.

>I'm still struggling with the symbolism of the double axe-I've also
>heard it represents a butterfly and/or the female genitalia. Or that
>it was always a political/religious item symbolizing the legal
>authority to kill, that in itself perhaps coming from its use as a
>sacrificial implement.

The butterfly is related to the doubleaxe which is related to the
sun which is related to the Goddess. The butterfly reminds me of
Hannahanna and Telipinu. Doesn't Hannahanna get her butterfly out
to search for Telipinu? Isn't that symbolically the same as sending
the sun out to search for renewed vegetation?

The female genitalia play a part of course, since they are symbolic
of creation (of life or of the universe).

>And we still have the axe as a potent religio-political symbol with
>the Etruscans, only surrounded by 12 sticks(and of course borrowed by
>the wonderfully syncretic Romans).

Yeah, that axe is probably a patriarchal reinterpretation
of the ol' Goddess beliefs. When the form of the Goddess became
so abstractified, the deity's sex became obscure and then I guess
it began to be assumed that it was male. Hence the "sexual
transition" of the trinity.

>I think this points to the axe as a sacrificial implement, the bull
>being its recipient, sacrificed and reborn, son and consort, dying
>and resurrected

Yes, this is what I think! It's simply new symbols attached to old
ones. Sacrifice became religiously important and so, the doubleaxe
and horns were used for this reason of conveying sacrifice while
still keeping the old Goddess form. The doubleaxe and horns also
represent *Manus and *Yemos, one being the hunter, the other
being the sacrificed, as well as the rivalry between *Dyeus and
*PerkWnos, sky and storm.

>Husband and son often being one and the same. I don't know about the rival
>suitor part-Not saying it isn't there, but where do we have competition
>between two gods over the goddess, except maybe Ares and Hephaestus?

Hmm, you got me thinking... I would say the whole brother rivalry
of the IndoEuropeans is related to this, although they don't battle
over the love of a girl... unless they are battling over the love
of their mother, the sun?

>Another creation story of Aphrodite: Daugher of Zeus and Dione.
>Dione was mentioned extensively by Herodotus and others as an old and
>vital Pelasgian cult.

I never looked into Dione much yet. I guess I will be soon ;)

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