Re: [tied] Re: Anouilh

From: Che
Message: 9467
Date: 2001-09-14

Excuse my poor English, or may I say in this case my "over-rich" English. I made a calc from catalan "luctuós", which is a standard word (in fact I'm afraid I'm making one more when writing "calc"... and so on).
About that "french gascon" I don't know what you're talking about. I'd say it's just gascon occitan, not french, though we must be aware there's no normativization in occitan within the French state (there's the aranès gascon occitan normative for our catalan gascon occitan speakers in Aran Valley, but in la France they refuse to accept it...)
 And "bueu" is french "boeuf", catalan "bou" english "male cow, bull" (specially that bull kept for reproductive purposes) while "ua vaca" may be product of intervocalic "n" deletion in gascon and, yes, means "a cow". Remember gascon is quite different to regular occitan dialects and has many unique phonetic and grammar features.
In any case, yes, we're talking about a one year old animal..
In catalan, however, we can confirm that "anyell" comes from "agnellus", diminutive of "agnus" and there's also french "agneau" (id.), so you may notice we're talking about a sheep rather than a cow, I don't know if it has lately extended to cows in gascon. The catalan word for a one year old cow is "vedell" from "vitellus" diminutive of "vitulus" (french "veau", from the same origin).
From this point of view (in which annuilh meaning a different thing that what we could expect), maybe Piotr's appreciations about a different origin in "annus" instead of "agnus" are right, though I didn't understood if he referred to a "regional development" of french "annuel", which I would immediately discard, or a regional gascon occitan development from "an" (year) driven by comparison with "agnellus". It would mean that here we have a false friend between catalan and gascon occitan (a very rare thing).
I will look for regular occitan "vedell" and "anyell", which I presume to be "vedel" and "anhel" or something like this. I'm almost sure about this, as there's kind of a "rule" within the francoromanic group saying: cat. "-ell", occ. "-el", fre. "-eau" (note that provençal makes final "vocal+l" approx. "vocal+u" provençal>provençau). If I find it, I would finally vote for the "annus" ethymology in annouilh and its construction due to a confusion between the agnus and the annus roots.
----- Original Message -----
From: markodegard@...
Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2001 6:54 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Anouilh

>yesterday's luctuous events

'Luctuous' appears only in James Joyce. 'Eurish', as I recall, is
the term given to these Joyceanisms.

> en gascon = un bueu, ua vaca d' 1 an.

This is Gascon French?

I don't recognize 'bueu', and 'ua vaca' looks like a typo for 'una
vaca' (female bovine, cow). Are we speaking of a 'yearling', a
one-year-old animal?

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