Re: [tied] Celtic Jutland

--- In cybalist@..., "Marc Verhaegen" <marc.verhaegen@...> wrote:

> >As I understand it, some linguists recognize about 30% of Germanic
> >languages are non-IE words. This substatum must have been the
> >aboriginal population the incoming IE peoples found in northern
> >Europe.
> >There were two layers of peoples previous to the IE arrival:
> >the earliest was the mesolithic/neolithic population of the

Ertebolle

> >culture of Denmark. Related groups must have ranged beyond this

area.

> >This culture basically stretches back to the terminal palaeolithic
> >Maglemose culture that also included Britain and much of the

northern

> >European plain and Baltic. Was this somehow related to Finnish?
>
> Probably not. Glen says the Finns came to Europe much later.

Not that I'm trying to champion a Uralic identity for the Mesolithic
Baltic, but while the Finns are recognized to have arrived later,
this does not preclude the possibility they arrived in a Uralic-
or 'Uraloid' - speaking area. As I recall, the pitted ware culture of
the area shows a long tradition that is related to a broader horizon
reaching eastwards beyond the Baltic across northern Russia to the
Urals.

>
> >I know of no study that shows the non-IE vocabulary in Germanic was
> >related to Uralic or anything else.
> >The other group was the megalithic peoples that spread up the
> >Atlantic seaboard during the warm Atlantic climatic period. While

it

> >might be intruging to equate these peoples to the modern Basques or
> >ancient Iberians, there is no evidence other than being part of the
> >same broad cultural tradition and apparently skeletal type that
> >either was the case.
>
> >Nautical terms were especially adopted by the early proto-Germanics
> >as, being the continental pastoralists that they were, their
> >technology and familiarity with the sea and navigation was inferior
> >to that of the locals'.
> >This is one clue that navigation was surprisingly developed in
> >Neolithic Atlantic Europe. How else would the early farmers make it
> >to Ireland, Britain, the Orkneys and Shetlands? We should not doubt
> >that they settled in southern Scandinavia, largely absorbing the

late

> >Ertebolle and related people.
>
>
> Yes, likely.
>
> >Might not the Skagerrak and Kattegat be corruptions of words the

pre-

> >IE ancient mariners had for these bodies of water? Why would a
> >Scandinavian need to go to the Netherlands to find a name for a sea
> >in his own backyard?
>
> Because it was not only Scandinavian but "international"? The names

could

> stem from the Hanse period (Brugge etc. ca.13th cent.), or else

from the

> Hollandic golden century (ca.17th)? Several languages have Dutch

nautical

> terms (English, French, Russian, Japanese...). Before the "secret

weapon" of

> the English (lemons to cure scurvy), Holland ruled the waves.
>
> Marc

Yes, okay, that's true. But if the names were as recent as medeival
Hansa times or the Dutch golden age, you would think that the
etymology was easier to figger.

PS - also limes, hence the pejorative "Limey" :-)