Re: Celtic Jutland

From: Joseph S Crary
Message: 8325
Date: 2001-08-05

A few wee words about Inguaeonum.

I believe Pliny used Inguaeonum to mean Place of the followers of
Ing, or the Collective Nations of Ing. Ing or Yng (Yngvi is Ingui),
is a deity associated with the Norse Fréa. Separate but equal.
this said, I think that it is interesting that he included only the
nations of the Cimbri, Teutoni, and Chauci. He also wrote that these
people were separate from the five nations that arose in, within, or
from Germany. He list these five nations as the Vandili who include
the Burgodiones, Varinnae, Charini, and Gutones. Although there are
serious questions concerning the ethnicity of the former group, there
is no doubt that all five of the later group have a Norse or Nordic
origin. What Pliny may have been saying is these five nation grew,
arrived, or stood up in Germany. I say this because he also writes -




[Chapter 13]

[Line 98]
Toto autem mari ad Scaldim usque fluvium Germaniae accolunt gentes,

However, all [the] men from up in Scaldim stream continuously [into]
Germaniae to become neighboring peoples:

Tacitus wrote nearly the same thing. Pliny also provides the southern
territorial limit of these Nordics, but adds
that at the current rate of migration, this boundary is advancing
south, thus its future location is in doubt.

We really don't know were the word Ing comes from. Sure there are
lots of names with it as a prefix. But one one is sure what the root
word means. This may indicate that it is a pre-IE word? Another point
is that Pliny also did not include the Friesian as a member of

Again there is no doubt that the Friesian used a Norse
derived language. Pliny mention the Friesians elsewhere in the same
chapter; actually only a few lines below. Clearly, in a general
fashion, Pliny was combining both church and state in the term
Inguaeonum. But why did he exclude all the tribal groups clearly
known to be dominated by Nordic speakers? A simple answer might be,
the people of Inguaeonum, at this point in time, weren't Nordic

With this said it is also clear that in Beowulf's time the
Ingwines, of which he is one, used Nordic-derived languages. At this
point the Cimbri, Teutoni, and Chauci, are in a general sense
replaced by the Jutes, Angles, and Saxons.

Now, I know that the following will find a rough ride amidst the
stormy sea of strong nationalistic preference. Please, this is only
my opinion. One, I may add can be changed if the right type of
evidence is presented.

I would argue that the problem may be simply semantic, or in the
words of an old Prussian proverb, more semblance than substance (or
is that an old Scottish proverb?). Regardless, terms such as German
and Germany, have always been geographic designations. In fact, the
word is Latin and means the original, the genuine, or in American
English The Real ma'Coy.

However, by some strange twist of fate, or faith, its now
applied to the largest Indo-European language group. Of course, the
languages of this group are all derived from Norse or Nordic
languages and dialects. My question is what was the logic of using an
intrusive Latin name to refer to this language group? Although truly
I fear the logical reason, I would like to read other's opinions. I
understand its use as a political tool to shape nationalistic ideas,
however I think using the word German for the largely Norse inspired
and derived language group is misleading and therefore has little
anthro-linguistic utility.

JS Crary