From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 8077
Date: 2001-07-24
----- Original Message -----
From: Sergejus Tarasovas <S.Tarasovas@...>
To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2001 6:37 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: Baltic *gud3-
> --- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
> > The idea that gudas = *Gudas borrowed before Grimm's Law is ingenious.
My only formal objection is that the Germanic ethnonym is attested as a
nasal stem (which would have been pre-Gmc. *Gud-o:n- rather than *Gud-a-;
the corresponding adjective is *Gud-isk-a-). If the one or the other were
reflected in Baltic, your case would be stronger.
>
> The most funny thing about the probable pre-Germanic forms is that their
suffixes -o:n- and (especially) -isk- could well be percepted by the
Proto-Balts as equivalents of the Baltic *-o:n- (variuios meanings) and
*-iSk- (where /S/ probably [s'] < *k^) 'of some class; typically class = an
ethnonym or a social class'. The last is extremely productive. Lith.
gu`dis^kas means guess what? 'Belarusian (adj.)' and can both be evaluated
as the Germanic reflex you asked for and as a result of the proper Baltic
developement. The most likely scenario, IMO, is that *Gud-isk-a- was
assimilated as *Gudis^kas, then re-analyzed as *Gud-is^k-as; a
back-formation gave *Gudas.
>
> Why Belarusians, you may ask? As Jordanes has it (De origine actibusque
Getarum, 27),
> 'ubi uero magna populi numerositate crescente et iam pene quinto rege
regnante post Berig Filimer, filiio Gadarigis, consilio sedit, ut exinde cum
familiis Gothorum promoueret exercitus. qui aptissimas sedes locaquae dum
quereret congrua, peruenit ad Scythiae terras, quae lingua corum Oium
uocabantur: ubi delectatus magna ubertate regionum et excertitus mediaetate
transposita pons dicitur, undeamnem traiecerat, inreparabiliter corruisse,
nec ulterius iam cuidam licuit ire aut redire, nam is locus, ut fertur,
tremulis paludibus uoragine circumiecta concluditur, quem utraque confusione
natura reddidit inperuium. uerumtamen hodieque illic et uoces armentorum
audiri et indicia hominum depraehendi commeantium attestationem,quamuis a
longe audientium, credere licet.'
>
> My (speculative, to some extent) scenario is like that:
> from the territory of today's Poland the Goths hit the road towards the
Black Sea. A part of them by some reason (I can't just buy Jordanes' broken
bridge) didn't cross Pripyat' ('undeamnem... locus...tremulis paludibus
voragine circumiecta concluditur'), overrided local Balts, but were
assimilated by them later. This new subethnos was named *Gudai 'Goths' by
their northern Baltic neighbors. When it was some centuries later absorbed
by the Slavs, this subethnos retained it's 'Gothic' ethnonym, which then
simply began to mean 'our southern neighbors'.
> I must admit that I'm partly *Gudas myself, so there's a bit of tendency
in that scenario ;)
>
> Sergei
>
>
>
>
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>