Re: Basileus

From: tgpedersen@...
Message: 7562
Date: 2001-06-11

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "petegray" <petegray@...>
> To: <cybalist@...>
> Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 9:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [tied] Basileus
> > You may be right about venio, Piotr.
> > In any case, you were attempting to establish the first
> element of basileus
> > as basi- < *gwm-ti-. What's wrong with the Greek word
> "basis"? The usual
> > meaning is "step" but it is also found in compounds with a
> more basic
> > meaning of "going", eg anabasis etc.
> >
> > Peter

--- In cybalist@..., "Piotr Gasiorowski" <gpiotr@...> wrote:
> There's absolutely nothing wrong with it; in fact, it's THE
> word, since <basis> < *gWm-ti-s. Well, I know that some
> analyse it as *gWh2-ti-s (which makes precious little
> difference, really, as PIE *gWem- and *gWah2- are roughly
> synonymous). I prefer *gWmtis as a more parsimonios
> analysis, because that's what extra-Greek cognates suggest
> (e.g. Skt. gati-, not *giti-). I also accept that <baino:>
> derives from *gWm-j-o:, not from anything with a laryngeal
> in it.
> Piotr

From Herman Møller: Semitisches und Indogermanisches

re: *gW-m-:

*G.W2- "aufstehn, sich aufmachen"
extended with a laryngeal (A1 or H)
jiga:mi Sanskrit
bíbomi Dorian Greek
ága:m Sanskrit
eban Dorian Greek
eben Ionian Greek

extended with m-

*G.W2-m- Pre-IndoEuropean-Semitic
*gW-m- "sich aufmachen" Proto-IndoEuropean
*géme-ti >
jáma-ti "goes, comes" Sanskrit
jamaiti "goes, comes" Old Persian

chweman "come" Old High German
*gWmyé-ti 3. sg. >
baíno: Greek

*K.W-m- Semitic
tæ-k.Wa:k.wæmæ "entgegenstehen,
sich wiedersetzen" Amharic

with a w- entered into the root
k.-w-m- "aufstehn, sich aufmachen" Ethiopian,
*ka:mu inf. Syrian

The development in meaning in IndoEuropean "audstehn, sich
aufmachen, go" > "come". The oldest meaning "aufstehn" which
is present in Semitic, develops in two directions
1) "stand up (from your seat) in order to stand" > "stand"
(whence then derivations such as are usually made from
verbs meaning "stand", such as
ka:mu "place, abode, building" Assyrian
ma-k.a:mun "place" Arabic
m-k.-m- "place" Phoenician
ma:k.o:m "place" Hebrew
as well as from the parallel root PIE *gWa:- in
ga:-tu- "place, house, seat" Old Persian
bé:-ba-o:s "feststehend, steadfast,
durable" Greek
to be compared with respect to meaning:
ka:ma:nu "permanent, durable,
eternal" Assyrian
bé:seto (dipron) "betrat" Greek
básis "foundation" Greek
bo:mós Greek
belong to the meaning "stand" rather than "go")
2) "stand up (from your seat) to go or to act in order to help
or to do battle, get up". This second meaning is the one
to undergo further development in IndoEuropean (cmp.
be~ d' imen "he got up in
order to go" Greek
from the parallel root bound in a system with baino:),
but it is also obviously present in Semitic so that forms
of *k-w-m- often may be rendered with the verbs "come"
and "go" with or without adverb.
k.a:m perf. "stand up,
rise to do something,
come to one's aid,
perform (= come),
come up,
behave in a hostile way
towards somebody,
arise (of the dead
= come back)" Hebrew
"let perform,
wake up,
bring about (let come)" Hebrew Hiph.
k.åm "surrexit, auxilium tulit,
rebellavit contra aliquem,
repugnavit" Syrian
k.o:ma perf. "stare, se sistere,
exsistere, oriri, resistere,
obsistere, assistere" Ethiopian
III 3 "insurgere contra aliquem,
adversari, repugnare,
propagnare, defendere" Ethiopian
k.a:ma "he stood up (especially of
standing up for prayer" Arabic
k.a:ma (ramad.a:na)
"he undertook the Ramadan
with the prescribed
prayers)" Arabic
"he undertook, attended to
(the affair)"
"surrexit (contra aliquem),
accessit (ad quendam)"
III "he rose against (him),
assisted (him)" Arabic
X "he went right,
went right (straight) on" Arabic
With respect to the meaning "be hostile to someone"
in Hebrew, Syrian, Arabic, Ethiopian cp.
gam- also "feindlich entgegengehn" Sanskrit
baíno: epí "gegen jemanden losgehn" Greek

And the other *gW-m-:

*G.2-m- Pre-IndoEuropean-Semitic
*g2-m- Proto-IndoEuropean
gémo "full, stuffed full,
packed full" Greek
gemízo "fill, load,
freight, pack full" Greek
gómos "load, shipload, freight" Greek
génto "held" Greek
hug-gemos sullabe Greek (Hesychius)
z^e~-ti inf. "compress" Old Church Slavonic
z^omU "press" n. Russian
z^meña "handful" Byelorussian
c^mlem "press, compress" Armenian
*K.-m- Semitic
k.-m-s.- "take a handful" Hebrew
(k.ums.-) "full hand,
sheaf which is grasped
by the hand" Hebrew "in full sheafs
= in abundance" Hebrew

The Semitic developments of *G.W2-m- "go, come" match well
with an interpretation of basi-leus as "one who confronts
the people".

I have left some of the German and Latin untranslated, since
the discussion was on the exact rendering of the root and I
didn't want to add further confusion.

A general remark: if you want to do Mediterranean Nostratic,
you ignore the results of Møller and Cuny, ie. some hundred
IE-AA cognates, at your own disadvantage.